Alberta PC's way out front

[darklord700]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/al...568/story.html

More spending on the way. We are on path to making 4 years of beer drinking and skirt chasing an unalienable right in Alberta. Let's eliminate all barriers so that everyone can get a degree.

[GP_Matt]

It didn't say, but are these the same loans that don't accumulate interest until you graduate? This turns it into a 4 year interest free loan to students who can afford tuition. All they have to do is apply, invest in something safe and return the principal when you graduate.

[darklord700]

I don't understand the rationale of not counting the parents income. But I really shouldn't complain as I max out my kids RESP every year so I actually benefit from this sort of thing even though it goes against my CONSERVATIVE nature.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by darklord700

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/al...568/story.html

More spending on the way. We are on path to make 4 years of beer drinking and skirt chasing an unalienable right in Alberta. Let's eliminate all barriers so that everyone can get degree.

OK, I'll bite. If the barrier to getting a degree is purely financial (which is what you're implying) then why wouldn't we work towards eliminating that?

There are still a lot of academic barriers to post-secondary schooling, and arguably if its free for students it would be even more competitive in that respect.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Slava

OK, I'll bite. If the barrier to getting a degree is purely financial (which is what you're implying) then why wouldn't we work towards eliminating that?

Isn't that what scholarships are for?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Isn't that what scholarships are for?

Not if scholarships don't cover enough. Its just such a strange reason to oppose this. Making schooling about grades and achievements as opposed to socio-economic standing seems like a goal that most people would agree with.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Slava

Making schooling about grades and achievements as opposed to socio-economic standing seems like a goal that most people would agree with.

A noble notion that is hardly practical in reality. What is the incentive for people to contribute to their kids' RESP if they know that their tuition will be borne by other taxpayers?

I grew up middle class and I'm also middle class now. Grades aside, the notion that's deeply ingrained in me is that if my folks can't pay, I can't go to college. And if I can't pay, my kids don't get to go go college neither. And there're a lot of subsidies, grants and loans that would help eligible students finishing their degrees. Maybe they'll need to work a few shifts at Walmart during their college years but that's just life. There's no free ride.

Like I said before, my kids and I are probably gonna benefit from this unnecessarily but I still don't like this.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Isn't that what scholarships are for?

Scholarships don't help when you're an upper middle class white male, fresh out of high school, with decent but unexciting marks, and your parents refuse to help pay for school.

The government won't give you loans because your parents make too much, but doesn't care that they aren't willing to give you a dime.

I know, I know, white people problems.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by darklord700

A noble notion that is hardly practical in reality. What is the incentive for people to contribute to their kids' RESP if they know that their tuition will be borne by other taxpayers?

I grew up middle class and I'm also middle class now. Grades aside, the notion that's deeply ingrained in me is that if my folks can't pay, I can't go to college. And if I can't pay, my kids don't get to go go college neither. And there're a lot of subsidies, grants and loans that would help eligible students finishing their degrees. Maybe they'll need to work a few shifts at Walmart during their college years but that's just life. There's no free ride.

Like I said before, my kids and I are probably gonna benefit from this unnecessarily but I still don't like this.

That sentence right there is where we differ. I took out and paid off an enormous amount of student loans and (now that enough time has elapsed) I'll say that I also worked a lot at the same time. Its not like I don't understand the significance here, its just that money shouldn't be a barrier for smart children to advance.

Yes, there are student loans, but don't kid yourself. Students gaduating with tens of thousands in debt are at a large disadvantage to students coming out debt free. I know - thats life. I just think that as a society trying to discourage that from being a reality is a lot smarter.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by darklord700

A noble notion that is hardly practical in reality. What is the incentive for people to contribute to their kids' RESP if they know that their tuition will be borne by other taxpayers?

Two completely different situations though - money is invested in the kids RESP in order to help the child pay for tuition. This money is not expected to be paid back. The Government of Alberta also puts money into this for every child born after 2005 I believe.

The student loan is also intended to help students pay for tuition, especially in cases where they otherwise couldn't afford it, however it is expected to be paid back after schooling has taken place, with some small deductions. Rest assured though, it is a loan and not a free ride through school. Heck I would be on board for a free ride if it resulted in a contract with students in some high demand who upon successfully graduating sign a contract to work in Alberta in said profession for the next 10 years after graduation at which point they would no longer have student debt.

Okay so now look at how much that the average university graduate makes relative to a high school graduate over the course of their careers and all of the reduced costs to the government and society associated with higher educational achievement. There is tangible benefits to the government investing in education now and for the long term.

I grew up middle class and I'm also middle class now. Grades aside, the notion that's deeply ingrained in me is that if my folks can't pay, I can't go to college. And if I can't pay, my kids don't get to go go college neither. And there're a lot of subsidies, grants and loans that would help eligible students finishing their degrees. Maybe they'll need to work a few shifts at Walmart during their college years but that's just life. There's no free ride.

Like I said before, my kids and I are probably gonna benefit from this unnecessarily but I still don't like this.

So essentially if you are born poor, regardless of how smart you are and your scholastic achievements, you are likely destined to stay uneducated because those are the breaks, after all there is no free ride in life.

Although I do wonder who this will really benefit as most people I know in University already have student debt, I guess there are some who are now eligible, such as myself, but I would prefer not to go into debt over the course of my education and work my ass off in order to do so. However as I progress and my course load becomes heavier I don't know if it will be feasible for me to continue to work for 30 hours ever week, especially with clinicals in which I am in a hospital for 36 hours each week, plus class time and research. In total I would say that I work at least 80 hours on the average week. You may tell me that is life, but at the same time it does get tiring very quick.

That being said back to the books I go.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I don't understand the rationale of not counting the parents income. But I really shouldn't complain as I max out my kids RESP every year so I actually benefit from this sort of thing even though it goes against my CONSERVATIVE nature.

Quite simply, because some parents are dinks. If you're an adult (and most university entrants are), then you should have the opportunity to get some higher education regardless of what your parents think about it.

[Azure]

Doesn't mean it should be free. I agree with subsidizing it to a point, but only if it directly benefits Alberta.

More favourable student loans would be a good start.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Azure

Doesn't mean it should be free. I agree with subsidizing it to a point, but only if it directly benefits Alberta.

More favourable student loans would be a good start.

I don't disagree. I think I said as much earlier.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

Doesn't mean it should be free. I agree with subsidizing it to a point, but only if it directly benefits Alberta.

More favourable student loans would be a good start.

There is one party with a platform you might love in this regard. The plan is that if the person works for a decade in Alberta then their loans are forgiven.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Slava

There is one party with a platform you might love in this regard. The plan is that if the person works for a decade in Alberta then their loans are forgiven.

I think that is a terrible idea. So the doctor who borrows money from the government is bribed to stay in Alberta with the promise that their debt will be forgiven after ten years of work yet the doctor who instead decided to work hard every summer and throughout the school year to pay for their tuition and graduates with little or no debt is instead encouraged to go to another province that offers a signup bonus to attract new doctors.

While going to school I worked manual labour 60 hours a week throughout the summer to pay for tuition and graduated debt free, one of my colleagues took a lower paying job because they wanted weekends off and spent every weekend going away (spending money). In the end he graduated with $20000 in debt. Does the government really need to subsidize the lifestyle of someone who now has an Engineering degree and will spend his life comfortably in the middle class?

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I think that is a terrible idea. So the doctor who borrows money from the government is bribed to stay in Alberta with the promise that their debt will be forgiven after ten years of work yet the doctor who instead decided to work hard every summer and throughout the school year to pay for their tuition and graduates with little or no debt is instead encouraged to go to another province that offers a signup bonus to attract new doctors.

While going to school I worked manual labour 60 hours a week throughout the summer to pay for tuition and graduated debt free, one of my colleagues took a lower paying job because they wanted weekends off and spent every weekend going away (spending money). In the end he graduated with $20000 in debt. Does the government really need to subsidize the lifestyle of someone who now has an Engineering degree and will spend his life comfortably in the middle class?

I agree with the not taking parents income into the qualifying. I've heard from many students how this has prevented them from getting a student loan.

I also like the idea of loan forgiveness after a X number of years commitment to Alberta - however I would like to see it taken one step further. IE: in the cases of healthcare workers and teachers, their X years must be in areas that are under served.

Remote locations. some rural areas and reserves are under served and/or see frequent turnover. To have a these positions filled for a long term would be a huge benefit.

Both of these concepts have been put forth by the WRP previously. Good to see the PC's picking up on them.

Them pushing forward with pharmacists renewing prescriptions was also brought up by Wildrose.

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Slava

There is one party with a platform you might love in this regard. The plan is that if the person works for a decade in Alberta then their loans are forgiven.

That is about a decade too late for me but a good idea. You'd actually keep even more of your homegrown professionals like doctors and nurses...

[seattleflamer]

Originally Posted by Azure

Doesn't mean it should be free. I agree with subsidizing it to a point, but only if it directly benefits Alberta.

More favourable student loans would be a good start.

And you realize that you're probably subsidizing at a more than a 90% rate for resident and 80% foreign at current tuition rates at the U of C, right?

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by First Lady

I also like the idea of loan forgiveness after a X number of years commitment to Alberta - however I would like to see it taken one step further. IE: in the cases of healthcare workers and teachers, their X years must be in areas that are under served.

Again, don't agree with this. I know the Maritime gives tax credits to retain their young people who are fleeing to Alberta. But do we have problem with not enough employees? I know a few IT guys with 20 years of experience that got layoff recently.

I suggest the government do less instead of more. Policies like this are just prone to abuse. Say I have no intention to leaving Alberta since my families and friends are all here. I will just rake up my student loans no matter what and in ten years the loans are gone. Very rarely do policies like this achieve their main objectives.

[You Need a Thneed]

I've always voted PC in the past, but I'm still completely unsure who I will vote for in the coming election. I live in Calgary/McCall, which currently has Liberal MLA Darshan Kang - which was a little bit of an upset in the last election.

The PCs don't even have a candidate yet, neither does the Alberta Party. I think that Darshan Kang has been doing a good job as MLA, though I still don't particularly like the Liberal Party as a whole. Grant Galpin is the WRA candidate, and I think he'd do a good job as MLA as well, but again, I don't think I'm as right wing as the WRA, and obviously, they are a new party in the political arena.

I was intrigued at the creation of the Alberta Party, but with no candidate yet, and very little policy, It's pretty much impossible to consider them yet.

I'm not sure if I trust the PC nomination process in this riding.