Stronach crosses the floor

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied@May 18 2005, 10:53 AM
I still don't understand why Calgarians kick themselves in the nuts every election when we give the Reform Party all our votes. Even Edmonton people have better sense. If we want a say in Ottawa it won't be by hoping that the Conservatives win the election(because that would never happen with Harper as a leader), it will only be when we vote a Liberal MP in.

If that happened, he/she would be a guaranteed a cabinent position(unless if it is Dave Bronconnier).

Oh and VOTEOUTANDERS.COM!!

Yup, we have to sell our souls to the devil before the devil will do anything for us.

fata that, and fata Ontario.

The funny thing about an attitude like this, is that the Liberals have not given us a single, solitary reason to vote for them.

Bring on the firewalls.

[Mccree]

When the budget was first announced Harper said he would support it. I may be wrong but his stance changed after the NDP made their little deal. I believe that is the part the CPC is voting against.

Not the actual budget but against the amendment which Martin also said is a confidence vote as well.

As for Belinda, I just irks me the wrong way. I do not really care that she moved but would she move if she was not given a cabinet position?

[Resolute 14]

BTW, FlameOn, might I suggest you go visit dictionary.com and learn the meaning of the word "context"?

[MarchHare]

When the budget was first announced Harper said he would support it. I may be wrong but his stance changed after the NDP made their little deal. I believe that is the part the CPC is voting against.

Incorrect.

When the budget was first proposed, Harper said the CPC would abstain from voting, thereby giving the Liberals enough votes to pass it without any help. Both the Bloc and the NDP were opposed to it.

Then came the recent allegations from the sponsorship scandal, and Harper decided it was politically to his advantage to topple the government now, so he said the Conservatives would vote against it.

After Paul Martin's primetime address, Jack Layton said he was open to supporting the government if the Liberals added some NDP-friendly amendments to the budget, which they did to Harper's infuriation.

Only yesterday, after Stronach crossed the floor and polls showed the CPC trailed the Liberals by a small margin overall and a fairly large margin in Ontario did Harper announce he was going to support the first budget again.

And he has the gall to accuse Martin of "dithering".

So in a sense, if this budget passes, Harper has himself to blame for forcing the Liberals to make changes to please the NDP.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Without adding anything, this thread is finally starting to get interesting. Can't wait to log back on in the morning and see where it has taken off from there.

[CaramonLS]

I believe the word 'power slut' is used in the appropraite context concerning Belinda. She switches parties and gets a seat in the Liberal Cabinet.

Why did she do this? Is this only because she wants to vote for the Budget?

Last time I checked you join a party on some or most of your core values, heck if everyone voted exactly how they wanted to, you'd see about 10 people changing parties each vote, you take the good with the bad. If the CPC was the correct party for Belinda in the first place, she would have done what just about every other member does, express their concerns in the back and vote along party lines.

The fact that she jumps ship in the wake of Polls favoring the Liberals in Ontario even POST corruption, means shes just an opportunist power slut.

[Mccree]

Originally posted by MarchHare@May 18 2005, 01:30 PM

Incorrect.

When the budget was first proposed, Harper said the CPC would abstain from voting, thereby giving the Liberals enough votes to pass it without any help. Both the Bloc and the NDP were opposed to it.

Then came the recent allegations from the sponsorship scandal, and Harper decided it was politically to his advantage to topple the government now, so he said the Conservatives would vote against it.

After Paul Martin's primetime address, Jack Layton said he was open to supporting the government if the Liberals added some NDP-friendly amendments to the budget, which they did to Harper's infuriation.

Only yesterday, after Stronach crossed the floor and polls showed the CPC trailed the Liberals by a small margin overall and a fairly large margin in Ontario did Harper announce he was going to support the first budget again.

And he has the gall to accuse Martin of "dithering".

So in a sense, if this budget passes, Harper has himself to blame for forcing the Liberals to make changes to please the NDP.

Thanks

And I guess you are right the Harper is too blame for the NDP deal. Looks like he was out manoeuvred on that one.

[Mccree]

Originally posted by CaramonLS@May 18 2005, 01:34 PM
I believe the word 'power slut' is used in the appropraite context concerning Belinda. She switches parties and gets a seat in the Liberal Cabinet.

Why did she do this? Is this only because she wants to vote for the Budget?

Last time I checked you join a party on some or most of your core values, heck if everyone voted exactly how they wanted to, you'd see about 10 people changing parties each vote, you take the good with the bad. If the CPC was the correct party for Belinda in the first place, she would have done what just about every other member does, express their concerns in the back and vote along party lines.

The fact that she jumps ship in the wake of Polls favoring the Liberals in Ontario even POST corruption, means shes just an opportunist power slut.

Exactly. Liberals ahead in the polls AND a cabinet positing all at the same time. Just smells rotten to me.

[Reaper]

Personally, I think the use of the terms slut and whoring to defame Stronach for crossing the floor are brutal.

You may not like what she did but there's not need to make inferences about sexual promiscuity concerning her.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+May 18 2005, 08:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ May 18 2005, 08:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Bertuzzied@May 18 2005, 10:53 AM
I still don't understand why Calgarians kick themselves in the nuts every election when we give the Reform Party all our votes. Even Edmonton people have better sense. If we want a say in Ottawa it won't be by hoping that the Conservatives win the election(because that would never happen with Harper as a leader), it will only be when we vote a Liberal MP in.

If that happened, he/she would be a guaranteed a cabinent position(unless if it is Dave Bronconnier).

Oh and VOTEOUTANDERS.COM!!

Yup, we have to sell our souls to the devil before the devil will do anything for us.

fata that, and fata Ontario.

The funny thing about an attitude like this, is that the Liberals have not given us a single, solitary reason to vote for them.

Bring on the firewalls. [/b][/quote]
And what are the reasons why you would vote for the Conservatives? At least Paul Martin is respected around the world. I don't think Harper would garner the same interests.

That said, no matter who will be in charge, at least we don't have Bush!

[kn]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied@May 18 2005, 11:53 AM
I still don't understand why Calgarians kick themselves in the nuts every election when we give the Reform Party all our votes. Even Edmonton people have better sense. If we want a say in Ottawa it won't be by hoping that the Conservatives win the election(because that would never happen with Harper as a leader), it will only be when we vote a Liberal MP in.

I couldn't disagree more. I could never vote for a Liberal Party that has demonstrated nothing but disrespect for the West over decades. I would vote NDP before Liberal.

[Clarkey]

Originally posted by Reaper@May 18 2005, 08:44 PM
Personally, I think the use of the terms slut and whoring to defame Stronach for crossing the floor are brutal.

You may not like what she did but there's not need to make inferences about sexual promiscuity concerning her.

My my, aren't we a wee bit sensitive.

[Reaper]

Originally posted by Clarkey+May 18 2005, 03:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Clarkey @ May 18 2005, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Reaper@May 18 2005, 08:44 PM
Personally, I think the use of the terms slut and whoring to defame Stronach for crossing the floor are brutal.

You may not like what she did but there's not need to make inferences about sexual promiscuity concerning her.

My my, aren't we a wee bit sensitive. [/b][/quote]
No, I'm just conscious of what effect can result when those terms are being thrown around to degrade someone.

So sorry if the idea of being decent means that one is overly sensitive.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied+May 18 2005, 02:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bertuzzied @ May 18 2005, 02:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Yup, we have to sell our souls to the devil before the devil will do anything for us.

fata that, and fata Ontario.

The funny thing about an attitude like this, is that the Liberals have not given us a single, solitary reason to vote for them.

Bring on the firewalls.

And what are the reasons why you would vote for the Conservatives? At least Paul Martin is respected around the world. I don't think Harper would garner the same interests.

That said, no matter who will be in charge, at least we don't have Bush! [/b][/quote]
Why on earth should I care whether Martin is respected around the world? I dont live around the world. I live in a place that is, in theory, a part of Canada.

The #1 reason to vote Conservative: The possibility that we might have a voice in how our affairs are handled federally.

It might not happen, becuase Ontario rules the day, and a Conservative government would likely have to pander to Ontario to stay in power, but I'll take the possibility over several decades of the Liberals proving that at best they will ignore us as long as we pay to support the national welfare system, and at worst they will spite us if it might make life in Ontario and Quebec just a little easier.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Would political sex trade worker be more PC? I don't want to have the FDW dictionary thrown at me, but the previous terms can be used in the context they were without the overly dramatic protests of sexual degradation.

That aside, she is a rich spoiled kid going to play in a bigger better redder playground. There was little thought for her constituents, and IMO there should be immediate by-elections for MPs who change party affiliation, any affiliation. For those proud of Martin for his check-mate move: does it not concern you the best person for the minister's position wasn't in his own caucus, but sitting on the other side of the house?

I get it, I understand how people could say the CPC was outsmarted, and that sleaze like this happens all the time. It just seems disturbing to me that the Liberals are so comfortable and efficient at raising the sleezometer time and time again.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I love it how some Conservative supporters try to paint it as if we're this huge victim. As if Ontario was completely raping and pillaging Alberta of everything good.

Last time I checked our standard of life is pretty dang good here. And if we're subsidizing some of the poorer provinces, heck, that's the way I think it should be.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@May 18 2005, 10:35 PM
Why on earth should I care whether Martin is respected around the world? I dont live around the world. I live in a place that is, in theory, a part of Canada.

The #1 reason to vote Conservative: The possibility that we might have a voice in how our affairs are handled federally.

It might not happen, becuase Ontario rules the day, and a Conservative government would likely have to pander to Ontario to stay in power, but I'll take the possibility over several decades of the Liberals proving that at best they will ignore us as long as we pay to support the national welfare system, and at worst they will spite us if it might make life in Ontario and Quebec just a little easier.

You should care since the Cdn economy lives and dies by exports from other countries.

Even you admit that the conservatives would never form the next govn't. Why wouldn't you want a Liberal MP that can at least send a message to PM. Better than Anders sitting on the sidelines picking his ass everyday.

Has anyone brought up the point that if Harper was in charge we would have troops in Iraq. Considering Canada's lack of security i'm sure we would have been attacked by Al-Quida by now.

[Resolute 14]

Because, as we all know, other countries are going to stop taking our exports because they dont like Stephen Harper.

You never answered my question. Why on earth would I want a Liberal representing me?

Do you really believe, presumably having read my comments about Stronach, that I am interested in whoring myself out for power? No. I am not going to sell my morals and beliefs out to vote for a morally bankrupt, corrupt, criminal political party because of some faint hope that it might suddenly suffer an epiphany and realize that their map of Upper and Lower Canada, circa 1871 is, in fact, horribly out of date.

The Liberal Party has done nothing at all to justify having me vote for it. When that situation changes, I will consider reassessing my position, not before.

And this is despite FDW's ridiculous opinion that we should be happy or tolerant of what is going on around us because we have it pretty good. We have it pretty good because of our hard work, and because of our government in Edmonton, not because of anything our Ottawa Overlords have done.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by browna@May 18 2005, 05:49 AM
You really think the NDP are snuggling up to the Libs because they have the same ideologic similarities, and want to share part of the blame for the Ad Scandal, and Gun Registry debacle among others? As soon as the NDP gets thier budget in there, Layton is both useless to the Liberals, and has said on the weekend he would want an election right away.

Homestly, I don't care. If the Liberals were making desperate power struggle alliances with a separatist party, then I would be concerned about that too. The NDP is not a separatist party and therefore I am not worried about a backdoor deal with the NDP as much - or at all.

I completely understand that politics are all about making these kinds of strange pacts, but they are also about shady deals and backdoor promises. So I don't think it is unreasonable to think that they NCP is making a few of those with the Bloc, and I don't think it is unreasonable to think that some of those have to do with Quebec separatism since that is what the Bloc's existance is all about. Since the Bloc is helping Harper, I think it is likely that sepatatism is the chip being played.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Flames Draft Watcher@May 18 2005, 10:44 PM
I love it how some Conservative supporters try to paint it as if we're this huge victim. As if Ontario was completely raping and pillaging Alberta of everything good.

Last time I checked our standard of life is pretty dang good here. And if we're subsidizing some of the poorer provinces, heck, that's the way I think it should be.

Are you saying you don't know anything about transfer payments to other provinces?

Maybe your wording isn't correct, but it seems like you have no clue that we make transfer payments.