[PGT] Flames win 5-2. Jagr's first point!

[Galakanokis]

Had a great time at the game, game itself was meh but the stands were fun. Lots a Flames fans out there and the Canuck fans there seemed to have admitted defeat and were out just to have fun. Just an overall fun night.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Had a great time at the game, game itself was meh but the stands were fun. Lots a Flames fans out there and the Canuck fans there seemed to have admitted defeat and were out just to have fun. Just an overall fun night.

I just saw Flames fans and empty seats.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I just saw Flames fans and empty seats.

Pretty much yes. Very sparse crowd.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

I was at the game... here were maybe 2/3rds of that in attendance... I've never seen that many empty seats at a Canucks game... or any NHL game I've ever attended (which includes games in PHX)

It should not be ignored that this was a Saturday night HNIC game against a Canadian division rival. When does this EVER happen in another Canadian city??

I was here in the late-nineties when the fan base fell off, but back then it was nothing compared to what is presently happening. The Canucks and the NHL should be alarmed.

[Iggy3x]

Stats still not fixed. Maybe we will have to wait until Monday. Bush league.

[Robbob]

Yeah the owners were probably justified in not going for the rebuild earlier. They still backed into one, but the concern was always the market wouldn't accept one.

[jroc]

Originally Posted by Iggy3x

Stats still not fixed. Maybe we will have to wait until Monday. Bush league.

Perhaps we should be on The Scorpion suicide watch?

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by jroc

Perhaps we should be on The Scorpion suicide watch?

Oh, the humanity!

[fotiou22]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It should not be ignored that this was a Saturday night HNIC game against a Canadian division rival. When does this EVER happen in another Canadian city??

I was here in the late-nineties when the fan base fell off, but back then it was nothing compared to what is presently happening. The Canucks and the NHL should be alarmed.

Stunning to see that many empty seats. And it makes the notion of the Flames ever leaving Calgary laughable.

[TheIronMaiden]

The NHL is becoming a league were special teams are crucial to a teams success. I am glad to see that the Flames special teams are doing well. Their PP% is at 20.0 which is 16th overall, which isn't incredible but isn't a liability either. However, their PK% is at 89.6 which is 5th in the league. That PK% is going to be very important down the stretch because the Flames haven't been very disciplined.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The NHL is becoming a league were special teams are crucial to a teams success.

Yup, increased parity does that. I think goaltending is also becoming increasingly crucial for the same reason.

[Cuz]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Yeah the owners were probably justified in not going for the rebuild earlier. They still backed into one, but the concern was always the market wouldn't accept one.

Vancouver sports fans in general are pretty fickle and the average fan only supports their teams when they are winning.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The NHL is becoming a league were special teams are crucial to a teams success. I am glad to see that the Flames special teams are doing well. Their PP% is at 20.0 which is 16th overall, which isn't incredible but isn't a liability either. However, their PK% is at 89.6 which is 5th in the league. That PK% is going to be very important down the stretch because the Flames haven't been very disciplined.

And they say with good teams you can add the PK and PP percentages and the sum should equate to over 100. Obviously the more over that mark, the better the team generally.

109.6% is pretty solid to start.


for reference, here are PP+PK sums in recent seasons:

Gulutzan
2016/17: 101.8
-----
Hartley
2015/16: 92.5 (30th PK year)
2014/15: 99.5
2013/14: 97.4
2012/13: 101.5 (shortened year)
-----
Sutter
2011/12: 102.0
2010/11: 100.7
2009/10: 98.3

[TheIronMaiden]

The PK% is at least some indication that Stajan and Brouwer are adding value to this team. Having fourth liners who can kill penalties is definitely an asset.

[Galakanokis]

Sign by us during the game. We also had a sign that said in with stupid get passed around a bit.

[AC]

Bennett's beard is no more...


What a tragedy.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by AC

What a tragedy.

Good. Maybe it will make less of a penalty per game player and more of a point per game player

[Itse]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The PK% is at least some indication that Stajan and Brouwer are adding value to this team. Having fourth liners who can kill penalties is definitely an asset.

Absolutely, especially since the primary PK forwards are Backlund and Frolik, and while they're great at it, it messes up the 5 on 5 lines.

Btw, I still love Frolik. So consistently good.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think there are two reasons why the fans didn't come out for the game.

1) Let's face it, Vancouver doesn't support a loser much.

However, they have never been THIS terrible at showing up.

2) They have nothing to look forward to right now. Management I think has royally screwed up this 'rebuild' by avoiding the rebuild. They didn't trade away enough players to recoup enough draft picks. They are having a lot of misses on the players that they are drafting. I bet that Canuck fans would show up in much bigger numbers if they had taken Ehlers or Nylander over Virtanen. Tkachuk over Juloevi. Pettersson looks like he is going to be really good, but he isn't here yet. Dahlen might be really good too (as long as you play him with Pettersson! haha). Boeser is really the only prospect that is exciting to look forward to at the moment.

Calgary arguably may have taken too long to start the rebuild, but they instantly had a lot of hope. Edmonton may have had WAY TOO MANY years in the rebuild, but at least they did a good job of tricking their fans that they were building something special.

Can anyone say that the Canucks are building anything special right now? I think the Canucks have added a lot of good pieces for the long run, but they are missing a few high-end pieces. They whiffed on those so far. I think they may be underrated in terms of number of good pieces, but the high-end blue-chip fun to watch prospects are basically non-existent right now, and it is because they have drafted so terribly.

Nothing on the Canucks excites me right now, or makes me think that they are headed anywhere else other than selecting high picks again, which then makes me think "Watch them whiff on those picks too!".

So while I do think that the Canucks have added decent pieces thus far in this 'rebuild', and while I do think that the fans in general aren't very supportive of a loser, I think the biggest reason is a lack of fan excitement in the team in general - now or for the near future.

2013 - Horvat (thanks to the Schneider trade), Shinkaruk, Cassells, Subban

2014 - Virtanent, McCann, Demko, Tryamkin,

2015 - Boeser

2016 - Julovei

These are the only names to make a lot of noise (for one reason or another) for that team. Add in Hutton from the 2012 draft (which was a home-run hit for them in the 5th round), and there is simply nothing to really be excited for. That is why I think the fans aren't showing up. Everyone can see how poor that team is, and there is really nobody to rally around.

Calgary was lucky to get Monahan who came in and did better than expected. To draft Gaudreau who was simply sensational in the NCAA and, quickly into the NHL. Brodie was already here and was just coming out.

Flames had one rebuild year (2013-14) with Monahan, Backlund, Giordano that suddenly became a legitimate top-pairing D-man, Cammalleri that was still decent and who was a fan favorite, Hudler who was fun to watch and was trending up, Colborne was acquired and was fairly thought well-of at the time, Baertschi was the 'superstar in waiting' to give the fans additional hope, Gaudreau had the entire hockey world talking about him in the NCAA, and also 'b' type of prospects like Arnold (who was Gaudreau's center and seemed destined for an NHL career as a center for a 3rd or 4th line), Ramage who was USA's Team Captain and so on. They also brought in Berra, Ramo and had Ortio in the system - all of which at the time seemed to bring some hope to this team.

Additionally, that season they started to turn a LOT of heads and were raved about for being very fun to watch. It is no wonder that Calgary fans still turned out to watch the product. They were entertained, and they were also hopeful for the future. Can the Canucks say that? Is it entertaining watching those Canuck games? Is there really much hope for the future there to actually build a winner?

That is why the building seems 2/3 empty. They are not fun to watch. There is no reason for optimism. Baertschi is, I would say, in their top 5 or 6 top prospects, and he is basically their Joe Colborne. The fans are paying good money to watch the Sedins wrap-up their career, watch Loui Eriksson skate around hard and get hurt, watch Virtanen start, then get scratched, then get sent down, watch a top prospect in Boeser not get shown much rope and start the year being a scratch...

As a Flames' fan, I most wanted to see Boeser playing, and the next guy I most wanted to watch was actually Virtanen, but really only to see how bad he really was. After that, it is Horvat of course, and though I really love his game and think he is a really good player, he isn't all that 'exciting' to watch, is he?

I can see the apathy. Vancouver seems to be a rather apathetic market to begin with relative to the rest of Canada when it comes to icing a losing product, but there is no real hope on that team at the moment, and there is very little in the way of entertainment value.

Say what you will about Hartley, but the Flames under him for those first couple of seasons were FUN to watch. Heck, go to HF on any given night, and they were being lauded by a lot of other fans. The media loved those Flames and how hard they worked and how fun they were to watch, and that was without Gaudreau in the lineup.

Vancouver is as fun to watch as two old grandmaster chess players going head to head. It is interesting enough to look over at, but something few people would pay $100 or more to watch live.

Good news if you are a Canucks fan though! If this keeps up, there will be some firings, there will be some trades. That will perk up interest for a few more weeks.

[djsFlames]

At least 4 goals in 3 games center Jankowski still has a beard....

Looks like the kids have gone out to the mountains in their time off.