Craig Conroy Needs to Pick a Lane

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Celebrini
Smith
Eklund
Misa
Musty
Dickinson
Askarov

people did stuff like this with Buffalo a decade or so ago...wait and see. They certainly aren't good this year though

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by kehatch

• Conroy has made one trade in the past 15 months (not selling low in weak market)
• We are about to enter the season with one of the NHLs lowest payrolls (clearly picking a lane to rebuild)
• The majority of our top players are 30+ (I would say Wolf, Kadri, Parekh, and Coronato are our top 4, and 3 of those are under 25)
• We lack star talent across both the active roster and system (both Wolf and Parekh are looking like franchise players, and Gridin, Reschny, and Potter look very promising)
• The Vegas odds of us making the playoffs or drafting McKenna are both very low (poor approximation of probability that's highly skewed by bettor biases)
• The most likely outcome of this season is we draft in the 12 to 14 range (just a guess here, but I would say the probability of this happening is no more than 20% at most; if you made the draft range 5th-20th I would be more inclined to believe this)

Conroy has not picked a lane. He is driving on the line waiting for something to force him to swerve. Its not a smart way to drive a Volkswagen or run a hockey team.

For those that think the lack of action is due to a lack of options, let me ask you this. If the Flames had finished bottom 5 last season do you think this summer would have went the same way? What if we made it to the conference finals?

See my responses to your bullet points inside your quote. Conroy manages players and draft picks as assets. Unless forced, he won't trade an asset for one of lesser value, unless it's for a specific team need that could push them over the top. But this is not where the team is. You don't trade an asset for one of lesser value when you're rebuilding. There may not have been a lack of options, but there was an absence of any good options that would improve the team's overall assets. So Conroy waits until he gets a return for an asset that's worth more to him than the asset he currently holds.

And people need to stop insisting that Conroy isn't doing his job if he doesn't trade Kadri. The player has a no movement clause and won't waive it. Because he wants to be here. Because he loves the city and sees the potential in the franchise. Similarly, Backlund won't agree to a trade. And I don't think Huberdeau is tradeable without giving up assets. So that basically leaves you with Andersson (and the expectation is still that he will be traded) and Coleman. I expect that both will get traded before the TDL unless the team is in the top 10 overall.

[Geeoff]

I suppose one thing he could've done is trade Wolf, instead of re-signing him. You could make a justification for that since he was the primary reason we weren't one of the worst teams.

[Macho0978]

Why is there only 2 options and why does everything have to be done right now? Conroy is going with the approach of asset stockpiling and cap management IMO. He hasn't made many trades of late, but he signed 2 long term contracts that IMO are game changers for this team a couple years from now.

I think in the next 2 years we will see Rasmus, Coleman, Kadri traded for more assets. I would love to see them traded now but trading them later does give him more time to figure out what he needs and spreads out the incoming flow of prospects. Too many prospects at once isn't a good thing.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

people did stuff like this with Buffalo a decade or so ago...wait and see. They certainly aren't good this year though

People are doing this with the Flames now. There are posters on here who have said the Flames are a center away from being a contender.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I see both sides.

I'm on board with Conroy and I share the same vision he has. I'm not always on board with how it translates to the ice, but that's more on coaching and identity than anything else.

Having said that, we are absolutely NOT in a full-blown rebuild. Don't be fooled by all the vets we've traded away. We tried everything we could do to keep those players, and only eventually traded them as an absolute last resort.

- Tanev wanted out, but there was a report that he would have stayed if we paid him extra.
- Lindholm wanted out and wouldn't even sign the contract that he asked for when we tried to give it to him.
- Zadorov wanted out becuase he was fed up with the mentality of the team/dressing room/organization/etc (ie. he hates losing and our room at the time seemed ok with it).
- Hanifin wanted out and told us he wasn't going to re-sign with us. We still kept him all year and tried to extend him right up until the deadline.
- Marktsrom was done with us. He was mad about something I can't remember and wanted out.

Toffoli and Mangiapane are probably the only two instances where an argument could be made that it was our decision to trade them. Mangiapane for sure, Toffoli is a bit more grey, as he says he told Tree that wanted to stay, but then Conny never talked to him about extending so he asked Conny to move him.

So... I think "full-blown rebuild" is a bit of a stretch. A much more apt term would be "as-blown-as-we're-allowed-to-be-and-only-because-everyone-wanted-out reconfiguration".

some don't match what I heard at all.

Tanev - wanted four years, Flames wouldn't go beyond 2
Zadorov - wanted new contract at $5M+ Flames balked
Hanifin - was back and forth all season including late in the year indicating he would sign

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by dino7c

people did stuff like this with Buffalo a decade or so ago...wait and see. They certainly aren't good this year though

Nothing is guaranteed, but I would be surprised if San Jose doesn't climb up the standings over the next several seasons. Buffalo openly tanked hard, and they went through terrible GMs and coaches, and made some terrible signings. Plus, Buffalo has always been one of the least attractive markets to play in.


San Jose bottomed-out, but they didn't outright tank. Grier even went down and had a meeting with the players when he saw them playing so poorly last season, and ripped into them. There is some stability there, and when that that team starts to improve, they will probably find it easier to sign UFAs to plug holes too.


Nothing is guaranteed, so you may be proven right, but they have been doing a fairly good job at rebuilding, and have a lot of good pieces coming up still. Chicago looks like a rebuilding team that may take a while longer to me.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Nothing is guaranteed, but I would be surprised if San Jose doesn't climb up the standings over the next several seasons. Buffalo openly tanked hard, and they went through terrible GMs and coaches, and made some terrible signings. Plus, Buffalo has always been one of the least attractive markets to play in.


San Jose bottomed-out, but they didn't outright tank. Grier even went down and had a meeting with the players when he saw them playing so poorly last season, and ripped into them. There is some stability there, and when that that team starts to improve, they will probably find it easier to sign UFAs to plug holes too.


Nothing is guaranteed, so you may be proven right, but they have been doing a fairly good job at rebuilding, and have a lot of good pieces coming up still. Chicago looks like a rebuilding team that may take a while longer to me.

I think Buffalo is a bad example as they have other issues vs other teams.

I think the Devils would be a good example. 2 years ago they looked to be the next big team and that hasn't happened. But with the Kaprizov contract, NJ is looking great having some of their players well belew $10M

SJ rebuild is hard to gauge right now as they have yet to lock anyone up long term. Celebrinni is great, but if he signs 3 years @$11M or 8 years @$14M, is he that good? Can they win in 3 years on the bridge deal?

The Flames have got poor rating on their rebuild recently. But Coronato and Wolf contracts are looking very very good and the vets we have also are starting to have very very good contracts. What we do with our vets can change the outlook of this team and growth from our long-term contracts can also change the outlook of our team vs SJ who is being labeled the best of the best in the rebuild category.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I think Buffalo is a bad example as they have other issues vs other teams.

I think the Devils would be a good example. 2 years ago they looked to be the next big team and that hasn't happened. But with the Kaprizov contract, NJ is looking great having some of their players well belew $10M

SJ rebuild is hard to gauge right now as they have yet to lock anyone up long term. Celebrinni is great, but if he signs 3 years @$11M or 8 years @$14M, is he that good? Can they win in 3 years on the bridge deal?

The Flames have got poor rating on their rebuild recently. But Coronato and Wolf contracts are looking very very good and the vets we have also are starting to have very very good contracts. What we do with our vets can change the outlook of this team and growth from our long-term contracts can also change the outlook of our team vs SJ who is being labeled the best of the best in the rebuild category.

Yes, Buffalo is a terrible comp simply because they have been a terribly run team since they were bought by Pegula, IMO. Maybe Ruff calling the shots will add some stability there moving forward, but they have been nothing short of a disaster. They are simply a poster child for what can happen if you don't hire qualified people to run your team.



As for SJ vs NJ - yes, NJ gets the points for having their core signed to lower deals moving forward. However, I don't like the composition of their core as much. Celebrini - Misa/Smith - Dickinson - Askarov is one of the best young 'spines' of a team right now. I like it more than NJ's by quite a lot, and NJ doesn't have a goalie.


Plus San Jose still has a lot coming up the pipe too, or already established. Eklund is a great player, Cagnoni is small, but he is already breaking through and can really run a PP, Musty is developing well, and others. Plus they still have 2 first round picks for the 2026 draft, and I think they are likely to finish in the bottom 5 or so this year still. I think they are going to come out of this rebuild looking really good. Nothing is guaranteed, but I do think they are my favourite so far out of all the rebuilding teams that have been hovering at the basement from the last 5 years. I think Grier will manage their contracts well enough to fill out the rest of his roster.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Conroy has picked a lane. This team is Sir Sucks a Lot

They just overachieved last year. Doubt it happens again this year.

"Sir sucks a lot" has arrived

[Badgers Nose]

Nah, impossible. I take it back.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I agree that this seems like a likable bunch of players, with a veteran leadership team that will provide guidance. They try hard.

I think it lacks any legit first line players, a competent back-up, or a number 1 defenseman. Losing Vladar makes the team worse. Looking Rasmus will make the team worse. And this team is unlikely to get the puck luck it got last season.

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the season was over by the end of October.

Narrator: the season was over before the end of October.

[Steve's Stick]

Reading Flames chat on twitter last night and that is a dark hole. Then come here and there is similar discussions -

I don't understand how people can't see that the Flames are NOT operating in a purely re-active state. They have an overall plan and are carrying it out in every decision.

Last year, they likely expected to be worse, but the hot start and Wolf changed that; but that was contingency and they operated accordingly (continue to draft/develop) while not hurting the team - I assume they made the decision that it was in the best interests of development to let their younger players have the exposure of a competitive team and that the returns offered in trades were not worth losing that experience. The cold start this year is another contingency and they are again operating according to the plan - the contingency this time is that they are making decision to not make the team better, but trying to get the pieces they have in the NHL good exposure so that they can be traded.

Everyone needs to chill and realize the plan is to be competitive for 2027-28 and in the interim draft/develop.

By competitive I mean have a young team that will make the playoffs with the pieces to be a contender.

By draft/develop I mean - draft (and as much as possible) and develop

By develop - I mean do not not unnecessarily bump a player up, until 27, let them season in the AHL since that will be better overall for their development. Yes, Gridin or Parekh more likely makes them better, but what good is it to risk their development to make a team better, so that they can finish 8th or 9th last? - give them time and space to develop fully and make the team worse by playing Farabee and Sharangovich - it's win-win - AND there's a chance that Farabee and Sharangovich, given more exposure, if they can play well-enough, might bring in an asset: so win-win-win.

I understand that we lived through BT, who was like a dog chasing cars and had no real plan other than all-in, but if you see what's happening now, it's all good - so relax.

Now there is a group of people out there who would say - well if the plan was draft and develop, why not trade Andersson or Kadri, etc. last year to get maximum value?

But, we don't know the offers: however, no version of an NHL26 trade is getting Jason Robertson or whoever - the return on any deal is going to be some version of the Lindstrom or Markstrom trades - it is unlikely those kind of deals will not be available this year for the same players (and by delaying a year, you get the added benefit of the involvement of players you respect mentoring your younger players) - at best you might get a Byram, but I would assume Buffalo wanted an extended Andersson and that was a no.

The Flames have a plan and things become a lot less anxious if you can see it - just relax - don't freak out if Parekh or Coronato is in the press box for a game - no one is suggesting the Flames are better with them off the ice, but that's the point.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Steve's Stick

Reading Flames chat on twitter last night and that is a dark hole. Then come here and there is similar discussions -

I don't understand how people can't see that the Flames are NOT operating in a purely re-active state. They have an overall plan and are carrying it out in every decision.

Last year, they likely expected to be worse, but the hot start and Wolf changed that; but that was contingency and they operated accordingly (continue to draft/develop) while not hurting the team - I assume they made the decision that it was in the best interests of development to let their younger players have the exposure of a competitive team and that the returns offered in trades were not worth losing that experience. The cold start this year is another contingency and they are again operating according to the plan - the contingency this time is that they are making decision to not make the team better, they trying to get the pieces and they have in the NHL good exposure so that they can be traded.

Everyone needs to chill and realize the plan is to be competitive for 2027-28 and in the interim draft/develop.

By competitive I mean have a young team that will make the playoffs with the pieces to be a contender.

By draft/develop I mean - draft (and as much as possible) and develop

By develop* - I mean (1) do not not unnecessarily bump a player up, until 27, let them season in the AHL since that will be better overall for their development. Yes, Gridin or Parekh more likely makes them better, but what good is it to risk their development to make a team better, so that they can finish 8th or 9th? - give them time and space to develop fully and make the team worse by playing Farabee and Sharangovich - it's win-win - AND there's a chance that Farabee and Sharangovich, given more exposure, if they can play well-enough, might bring in an asset: so win-win-win.

I understand that we lived through BT, who was like a dog chasing cars and had no real plan other than all-in, but if you see what's happening now, it's all good - so relax.

Now there is a group of people out there who would say - well if the plan was draft and develop, why not trade Andersson or Kadri, etc. last year to get maximum value?

But, we don't know the offers: however, no version of an NHL26 trade is getting Jason Robertson or whoever - the return on any deal is going to be some version of the Lindstrom or Markstrom trades - it is unlikely those kind of deals will not be available this year for the same players (and by delaying a year, you get the added benefit of the involvement of players you respect mentoring your younger players) - at best you might get a Byram, but I would assume Buffalo wanted an extended Andersson and that was a no.

The Flames have a plan and things become a lot less anxious if you can see it - just relax - don't freak out if Parekh or Coronato is in the press box for a game - no one is suggesting the Flames are better with them off the ice, but that's the point.

Post of the day right here.

[Knut]

Yup. Can we pin it to the top and make it Mandatory to read.

[Shazam]

I saw two cars going down the wrong way on the Crowchild exit to Brentwood Road yesterday, hopefully one of them wasn't Conroy.