The parents of the Michigan high school shooting suspect are being charged

[Minnie]

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Or you are waiting for others to post their opinions so you can criticize them rather than stake out your own claims.

I've never been shy about making claims.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Azure

Such a strange take.

I think even in this case, where the parents appear to have actually been very negligent, the prosecution will still have to present a rock solid case to establish that their negligence directly lead or contributed to the kid going to school with a gun and shooting people.

We already know there are mental issues at play, and defense will obviously argue it that way too.

I'm no lawyer, but one could conclude that in order to establish a legal case for these charges, the burden of guilt will need to be definite.

Which is why I'm fine with it, and it is about time we focus on holding parents responsible for the actions of their child as they have by far the greatest impact.

Do you think it's strange that they are charging the shooter as an adult while simultaneously claiming the parents are responsible because he is a child?

[jammies]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

You're disagreeing with comments I have not even made

I'm not disagreeing with your comments (what comments?) , I'm disagreeing with your attempt to portray yourself as an unbiased seeker of truth. Your questions betray bias. They are exactly the kind of questions I would expect from you, because during your entire posting history you have consistently taken libertarian stances on every subject you have opined upon. You pretend you are looking for enlightenment when you already believe you possess it.

I am certain you don't like the idea of the parents being charged, and are against their conviction and guilt. Context matters, and the context around your posting history drives this certainty. Why pretend otherwise? It's not putting words in your mouth any more than assuming a vegan is likely not going to be in favour of ordering a steak at a restaurant. Pretend all you like, but you're mostly only going to be fooling yourself.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Do you think it's strange that they are charging the shooter as an adult while simultaneously claiming the parents are responsible because he is a child?

No.

They are not saying the parents are responsible because he is a 'child', but that the parents are responsible because their actions or inaction helped lead to the tragedy.

Are they wrong?

[WinnipegFan]

- Suicide where they missed the signs?

Yes, if they gifted the child the item used in suicide (gun, pills, noose) the day before. Then the child was caught googling suicide and the parents laughed and said don't get caught googling. Then on the day the child suicided they were told by a professional in some form of child care that they need to keep an eye on them and get them counselling regarding suicide in 48 hours. Then they simply ignored it. Yes they would be responsible.

- Vehicular homicide where they purchased a vehicle for a child that subsequently killed people through DUI, incompetence, etc?

Yes, if they were called to the bar by the bartender and told he can't drive home. Then they decide to leave him there alone with the keys to the car. Yes, they would be.

You are ignoring many of the factors that lead to the charge with your oversimplification in comparisons.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by jammies

I'm not disagreeing with your comments (what comments?) , I'm disagreeing with your attempt to portray yourself as an unbiased seeker of truth. Your questions betray bias. They are exactly the kind of questions I would expect from you, because during your entire posting history you have consistently taken libertarian stances on every subject you have opined upon. You pretend you are looking for enlightenment when you already believe you possess it.

I am certain you don't like the idea of the parents being charged, and are against their conviction and guilt. Context matters, and the context around your posting history drives this certainty. Why pretend otherwise? It's not putting words in your mouth any more than assuming a vegan is likely not going to be in favour of ordering a steak at a restaurant. Pretend all you like, but you're mostly only going to be fooling yourself.

I've said that I think it's a complex question and I haven't yet resolved on a definite position. It's up to you whether you take that at face value or not.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Do you think it's strange that they are charging the shooter as an adult while simultaneously claiming the parents are responsible because he is a child?

Nope.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I've said that I think it's a complex question and I haven't yet resolved on a definite position. It's up to you whether you take that at face value or not.

No, I don't. I doubt anyone else in this thread believes you either.

Let me predict your likely reply: "Well, if you think I'm lying, I guess we've nothing to discuss." Or some variation thereof.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Azure

No.

They are not saying the parents are responsible because he is a 'child', but that the parents are responsible because their actions or inaction helped lead to the tragedy.

Are they wrong?

As a matter of law, we will find out.

I disagree that the prosecution (or those in this thread) is not making this about him being their child. If the shooter was an adult, then it would be difficult to make the argument that they had a legal right to force him into counselling or any of the other interventions.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

As a matter of law, we will find out.

I disagree that the prosecution (or those in this thread) is not making this about him being their child. If the shooter was an adult, then it would be difficult to make the argument that they had a legal right to force him into counselling or any of the other interventions.

I'm guessing leaving the gun they bought for him unlocked in the house will be brought up, among other things.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

As a matter of law, we will find out.

I disagree that the prosecution (or those in this thread) is not making this about him being their child. If the shooter was an adult, then it would be difficult to make the argument that they had a legal right to force him into counselling or any of the other interventions.

On this you would be right but that is not why they are being charged, they are being charged because they knew the kid had a gun (which they gave him) but did not check his room to see if it was there, inform the school he had a gun, check his back pack to take the gun away from him.

If you pm that you have bought a gun and are going to kill your whole family and I dont report that to the authorities I become an accessory to the crime, we all have a legal obligation to report regardless of the age or relationship to a person threatening violence, in the UK this is known as 'depraved indifference'

[MoneyGuy]

Trump wasn’t the problem.

He was a symptom of the problem.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Trump wasn’t the problem.

He was a symptom of the problem.

US shootings on school grounds have been ticking steadily upwards in recent years, according to pro gun-control group Everytown.

After a brief dip last year during coronavirus lockdowns, the number of such attacks has rebounded with 138 incidents of gunfire on school grounds so far in 2021.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59484333

Every 2.6 days...not school days...calendar days. And 2021 isnt even over yet. Thats nuts.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

On this you would be right but that is not why they are being charged, they are being charged because they knew the kid had a gun (which they gave him) but did not check his room to see if it was there, inform the school he had a gun, check his back pack to take the gun away from him.

If you pm that you have bought a gun and are going to kill your whole family and I dont report that to the authorities I become an accessory to the crime, we all have a legal obligation to report regardless of the age or relationship to a person threatening violence, in the UK this is known as 'depraved indifference'

ya, it will be interesting to see how the law plays out on this.

On your first paragraph, those actions would only be something a parent could control.

On the second paragraph, it seems that the school/teachers should be similarly culpable.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

As a matter of law, we will find out.

I disagree that the prosecution (or those in this thread) is not making this about him being their child. If the shooter was an adult, then it would be difficult to make the argument that they had a legal right to force him into counselling or any of the other interventions.

A question to be dug into would be is simply supplying the firearm that was used in the shooting enough to make them guilty.

It is not legal in Michigan for a child to own a gun except under specific circumstances. So is supplying an illegal firearm to a person who then goes out and kills some one make you guilty? I think this may be independent of whether or not he is a child because of the tweets of the parents calling it his gun.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Trump wasn’t the problem.

He was a symptom of the problem.

Trump was still very much a problem.

[Heavy Jack]

Man between this thread, the rittenhouse thread and the ongoing violence in America thread it really isn’t America anymore it’s Amessica. I don’t care which side of the debate your on anymore if you can’t see that there is a clear issue with civilians and guns in America you’re purposefully turning a blind eye to an exceedingly urgent issue. Embarrassing to watch from the sidelines.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Man between this thread, the rittenhouse thread and the ongoing violence in America thread it really isn’t America anymore it’s Amessica. I don’t care which side of the debate your on anymore if you can’t see that there is a clear issue with civilians and guns in America you’re purposefully turning a blind eye to an exceedingly urgent issue. Embarrassing to watch from the sidelines.

I don’t suppose you’ve seen the story of the Texas man who was shot and killed by his ex wife’s boyfriend trying to pick up his kid for a scheduled visitation.

No charges expected to be laid. “Self defense”, even though the shooter completely escalated the situation by bringing a gun out when he could’ve just gone inside and locked the door.

Appalling.

https://www.everythinglubbock.com/ne...oting-ssj/amp/

I know this country isn’t perfect, but that doesn’t happen here.

School shootings, for that matter, don’t even really happen here - Alberta’s last school shooting happened in the 20th century.

[Heavy Jack]

Just took a spin in the rittenhouse thread and saw the story and the preceding debate and just cringed. It’s as if the movie idiocracy is several centuries ahead of schedule. Just mind blowing how bent the mature and logical view is in America on this issue. Meanwhile you have gun and self defence apologists undoubtedly taking the side of rittenhouse and the Bo Levi’s of this thread bailing on their arraignment after their son destroyed dozens of families. I couldn’t imagine one of my loved ones dying at the hand of this kind of stupidity… it’s not shocking anymore either which really is telling of just how bad this has gotten in America.