Wouldn’t they take up more space than a marrette though? I guess I’d have to see them side-by-side. I could see it getting crowded in some busier junction boxes.
Speaking only from what I've read other people say and not from experience, but they seem to generally take up less space in a box due to their ability to lie flat and they make it easier to arrange the wires in the box for a better fit.
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Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14
No professional should use them. Are they passable for a homeowner who doesn't know any better? Yes, but I would never put them in my house
What specifically is wrong with them? I've never used them myself, genuinely curious. I saw some people using them on YouTube and was intrigued.
Speaking only from what I've read other people say and not from experience, but they seem to generally take up less space in a box due to their ability to lie flat and they make it easier to arrange the wires in the box for a better fit.
What specifically is wrong with them? I've never used them myself, genuinely curious. I saw some people using them on YouTube and was intrigued.
Compared to a regular splice the connection is very poor, they aren't compatible with aluminum wiring and those plastic clips you push down can break. Using them is similar to back stabbing a plug (when you don't wrap the wires around the screws but instead push them in the holes in the back of the plug), it greatly increases the chance of having an open circuit in the future.
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Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
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I find it crazy that every electrician I have ever talked to says don't use the backstab, yet they are on almost every device. If they are so bad, why even have them? I've never used them, personally, because I listen to my sparkies. Just curious.
That's a false dichotomy; wire nuts aren't compatible with aluminum wiring either.
A quick contact resistance test would prove you wrong, it's actually very easy to prove with a ductor and about 10 seconds of time. Also a little research would show that there are in fact marrettes for aluminum wiring, you can even find them at specialty electrical stores like home depot.
Also a little research would show that there are in fact marrettes for aluminum wiring, you can even find them at specialty electrical stores like home depot.
Okay, I stand corrected. I've only ever seen the purple Al-to-Cu ones. I'll freely admit this limitation is completely irrelevant to me as I have no aluminum wiring in my house, but it stands to reason a professional has to deal with Al-to-Al sometimes.
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A quick contact resistance test would prove you wrong, it's actually very easy to prove with a ductor and about 10 seconds of time.
I thought you meant that the mechanical connection is worse. From the youtube videos I've watched of people using them they're very snug and resist a tug test better than a wire nut.
With respect to the electrical connection, I would imagine they have a slightly higher resistance because the conductors are not in direct contact, but I find it incredulous that it'll make much of a difference. At least, on typical 120 VAC/15 A circuits the likes you'd find in a house.
Okay, I stand corrected. I've only ever seen the purple Al-to-Cu ones. I'll freely admit this limitation is completely irrelevant to me as I have no aluminum wiring in my house, but it stands to reason a professional has to deal with Al-to-Al sometimes.
I thought you meant that the mechanical connection is worse. From the youtube videos I've watched of people using them they're very snug and resist a tug test better than a wire nut.
With respect to the electrical connection, I would imagine they have a slightly higher resistance because the conductors are not in direct contact, but I find it incredulous that it'll make much of a difference. At least, on typical 120 VAC/15 A circuits the likes you'd find in a house.
The tensile strength of each type has its limitations, if you're using wagos to connect to a load with a modest amount of current flowing as well as vibration (aka a small transformer) they operate worse mechanically than a wire nut. Tug test they are probably better but that isn't very relevant as you'll never be tugging on a wire once it's installed.
The difference is huge in electrical connection. Take this video for example:
In this video, he uses only 1A of current for the test (he should be using closer to 20A to actually stress the connection for a useful result). Long story short he gets 6.8 mOhm of resistance at 1A for the wago and 6.5mOhm for a wire nut.
Those are useful to know, but had he used 20A and measured watts lost (aka heat generated) from the connection using the formula P=I^2 X R.
P=20^2 x 6.8 = 2.720W lost from the wago + wire
P=20^2 x 6.5 = 2.600W lost from the wire nut + wire
This equates to a 5% increase in heat generated by a wago. Heat related failure is also not linear when it comes to equipment lifespan, its actually exponential so a 5% difference is substantial.
Of note, he didn't strip back enough on the wire nut to meet the manufacturers spec. He also didn't pre twist the wires which is a manufacturer spec but is not consistent with best trade practices. The value of 6.5mOhm could be dropped even further with having a larger contact area and pre twisting the wires.
This is all napkin math and there will be some rounding errors here, but for all intents and purposes it demonstrates my point.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
Last edited by PaperBagger'14; 11-11-2021 at 02:19 PM.
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The tensile strength of each type has its limitations, if you're using wagos to connect to a load with a modest amount of current flowing as well as vibration (aka a small transformer) they operate worse mechanically than a wire nut. Tug test they are probably better but that isn't very relevant as you'll never be tugging on a wire once it's installed.
The difference is huge in electrical connection. Take this video for example:
In this video, he uses only 1A of current for the test (he should be using closer to 20A to actually stress the connection for a useful result). Long story short he gets 6.8 mOhm of resistance at 1A for the wago and 6.5mOhm for a wire nut.
Those are useful to know, but had he used 20A and measured watts lost (aka heat generated) from the connection using the formula P=I^2 X R.
P=20^2 x 6.8 = 2.720W lost from the wago + wire
P=20^2 x 6.5 = 2.600W lost from the wire nut + wire
This equates to a 5% increase in heat generated by a wago. Heat related failure is also not linear when it comes to equipment lifespan, its actually exponential so a 5% difference is substantial.
Of note, he didn't strip back enough on the wire nut to meet the manufacturers spec. He also didn't pre twist the wires which is a manufacturer spec but is not consistent with best trade practices. The value of 6.5mOhm could be dropped even further with having a larger contact area and pre twisting the wires.
This is all napkin math and there will be some rounding errors here, but for all intents and purposes it demonstrates my point.
Could you clarify...is pre-twisting best practice, or not? I've always per-twisted, I'm just confused by your wording.
The tensile strength of each type has its limitations, if you're using wagos to connect to a load with a modest amount of current flowing as well as vibration (aka a small transformer) they operate worse mechanically than a wire nut. Tug test they are probably better but that isn't very relevant as you'll never be tugging on a wire once it's installed.
The difference is huge in electrical connection. Take this video for example:
In this video, he uses only 1A of current for the test (he should be using closer to 20A to actually stress the connection for a useful result). Long story short he gets 6.8 mOhm of resistance at 1A for the wago and 6.5mOhm for a wire nut.
Those are useful to know, but had he used 20A and measured watts lost (aka heat generated) from the connection using the formula P=I^2 X R.
P=20^2 x 6.8 = 2.720W lost from the wago + wire
P=20^2 x 6.5 = 2.600W lost from the wire nut + wire
This equates to a 5% increase in heat generated by a wago. Heat related failure is also not linear when it comes to equipment lifespan, its actually exponential so a 5% difference is substantial.
Of note, he didn't strip back enough on the wire nut to meet the manufacturers spec. He also didn't pre twist the wires which is a manufacturer spec but is not consistent with best trade practices. The value of 6.5mOhm could be dropped even further with having a larger contact area and pre twisting the wires.
This is all napkin math and there will be some rounding errors here, but for all intents and purposes it demonstrates my point.
I was told there would be no formulas on the exam.
They use Wago type connectors a lot in Europe. I wonder if having 240V combined with using 2.5mm wire (slightly thicker than 14 AWG) for most plug circuits means less current/heat generally? Of course they also use ring circuits in the UK which sounds like an absolutely terrible idea to me in terms of safety.
So finally getting around to working on my doorbell which isnt working, discovered that the live wire from the transformer to the breaker box is disconnected. Ground wire still connected.
I remember the home inspector showing how it was double tapped on another breaker and saying that is the only time you can double tap - my question - do I need an electrician to attach it again, or am I good to attach it to one of the 15 amp breakers? OR am I better off just getting another breaker for it.
So finally getting around to working on my doorbell which isnt working, discovered that the live wire from the transformer to the breaker box is disconnected. Ground wire still connected.
I remember the home inspector showing how it was double tapped on another breaker and saying that is the only time you can double tap - my question - do I need an electrician to attach it again, or am I good to attach it to one of the 15 amp breakers? OR am I better off just getting another breaker for it.
Shut the breaker off, check the end of the wire that was in the breaker for damage. If it doesn't look burnt put it back in and tighten it down and turn the breaker on.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilboimcdavid
Eakins wasn't a bad coach, the team just had 2 bad years, they should've been more patient.
So finally getting around to working on my doorbell which isnt working, discovered that the live wire from the transformer to the breaker box is disconnected. Ground wire still connected.
I remember the home inspector showing how it was double tapped on another breaker and saying that is the only time you can double tap - my question - do I need an electrician to attach it again, or am I good to attach it to one of the 15 amp breakers? OR am I better off just getting another breaker for it.
I've also seen many people tie it into their panel plug instead to avoid rooting around through a crowded panel.
I have one of those electric ‘fireplace’ units with a dedicated circuit, but the unit itself is either on or off. I’d like to change the switch to a thermostat like you see on most space heaters, but an outlet control might be okay.
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No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
The tensile strength of each type has its limitations, if you're using wagos to connect to a load with a <...clipped for brevity...>
If anything that video proves that the difference between wire nuts and wagos is actually pretty much insignificant. Certainly not definitive; there's more variability in resistance due to how the alligator clips were making contact with the other ends of the wires.
Taking your back-of-the-napkin calculations further, a 20 A load on a 120 V circuit draws 2400 W, so the difference between a wire nut and a wago is
I thought the Weiser smart key system seemed easier to use than the stuff in this video. I redid my house myself with them when I took possession of my place.
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