Let's talk about: Oliver Kylington

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by redforever

Kylington should benefit playing with Tanev, just like Phaneuf did playing with Roman Hamrlik.

Haha this is some good revisiotionist history. Phaneuf was a great defencemen when he was a Flame and it had nothing to do with Hamrlik.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

Haha this is some good revisiotionist history. Phaneuf was a great defencemen when he was a Flame and it had nothing to do with Hamrlik.

I would suggest that it is you that is incorrect here. Both of those statements are not mutually exclusive.

Phaneuf was indeed a great defenseman.

AND, by all accounts at the time, young Phaneuf also learned, thrived, and benefited from playing with Hamrlik.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

I would suggest that it is you that is incorrect here. Both of those statements are not mutually exclusive.

Phaneuf was indeed a great defenseman.

AND, by all accounts at the time, young Phaneuf also learned, thrived, and benefited from playing with Hamrlik.

True, but some seem to be giving all the credit to Tanev.

I think most defenceman benefit from having a good partner.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

Frankly he is a much better player than he was 2 years ago. He played a decent amount of NHL games in a protected pairing as he adjusted to the game.

If he has hard feelings about being developed properly, and blossoming into the player he is now, I would have issues of my own.

Up until last year it was regular development...
Being kept on the taxi squad last year without having a chance to play any meaningful games...not so much.

[Britflamesfan]

He has definitely been miss handled by the Flames (nothing unusual) prior to this season he had played 80 NHL games and I do not remember any great criticism of him at the time. Surprise young D men make mistakes. Last year the flames had him sat on side lines and not playing (clearly they had all but given up on him, because you do not develop sitting watching games) and they also waived him recently. Thank goodness he has stuck around because we are now seeing what he is made of, this very nearly became another Marty St lewis. If I was him I would be looking for a very good pay rise to take me to UFA and then I would see what others were prepared to pay me.

Going to be a very interesting few years with a lot of players due to be payed significant amounts as their contracts come to an end. Who is going to be off because the team cannot afford all of them.

[PeteMoss]

Before we go hog wild after coaches and everyone else about him not playing prior to this year - he was put on waivers in the past. No one grabbed him so its not like the league thought that he'd be good if you played him.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Before we go hog wild after coaches and everyone else about him not playing prior to this year - he was put on waivers in the past. No one grabbed him so its not like the league thought that he'd be good if you played him.

I see this a lot. It wasn’t that simple.

You see a player you want on waivers, you have 24 hours to make a spot. Can’t do it by waivers, because that’s the next day. You have a full taxi squad and need to add the player you claimed to your cap for the remainder of the season.

Seeing a player clear waivers has never meant nobody wants them. Especially last season.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Before we go hog wild after coaches and everyone else about him not playing prior to this year - he was put on waivers in the past. No one grabbed him so its not like the league thought that he'd be good if you played him.

Every single NHL team passed on Martin St. Louis and he wasn't drafted.

The argument he was passed on waivers is a lazy one and means nothing. Especially in the beginning of the year where it's very hard to claim a player.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I see this a lot. It wasn’t that simple.

You see a player you want on waivers, you have 24 hours to make a spot. Can’t do it by waivers, because that’s the next day. You have a full taxi squad and need to add the player you claimed to your cap for the remainder of the season.

Seeing a player clear waivers has never meant nobody wants them. Especially last season.

I agree with that sentiment, but if it was obvious that a guy was a top 4 defenseman being screwed over the Flames someone would have found room for him.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

He has definitely been miss handled by the Flames (nothing unusual) prior to this season he had played 80 NHL games and I do not remember any great criticism of him at the time. Surprise young D men make mistakes.

You may not remember, but I sure do. I think Bingo summarised the feelings of many of us the past couple seasons: Kylington's skating has always been his greatest strength, but before this season he has frequently struggled in his decision-making with the puck, and his positioning in his own zone. I recall Bingo once saying that it was like he would panic with the puck, and was then slow about deciding what to do with it.

Kylington's game was FAR from flawless, which is why he was in and out of the lineup so much. But I think the Flames have been really careful with him precisely because the potential was so high. It's paying off now.

Last year the flames had him sat on side lines and not playing (clearly they had all but given up on him, because you do not develop sitting watching games) and they also waived him recently.

I am betting that the expansion draft played a big part in Kylington's usage last season, and I am unconvinced that the Flames had ever "given up on him."

Thank goodness he has stuck around because we are now seeing what he is made of, this very nearly became another Marty St lewis. If I was him I would be looking for a very good pay rise to take me to UFA and then I would see what others were prepared to pay me.

I mean, you cannot even spell Marty St. Louis correctly. And no, I doubt very much that the situation in Calgary was ever close to that.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

He has definitely been miss handled by the Flames (nothing unusual) prior to this season he had played 80 NHL games and I do not remember any great criticism of him at the time. Surprise young D men make mistakes. Last year the flames had him sat on side lines and not playing (clearly they had all but given up on him, because you do not develop sitting watching games) and they also waived him recently. Thank goodness he has stuck around because we are now seeing what he is made of, this very nearly became another Marty St lewis. If I was him I would be looking for a very good pay rise to take me to UFA and then I would see what others were prepared to pay me.

Going to be a very interesting few years with a lot of players due to be payed significant amounts as their contracts come to an end. Who is going to be off because the team cannot afford all of them.

He is doing really well for a guy that was miss-handled.

Kylington has blossomed this year, and is being rewarded with ice time and opportunity as a commensurate result. He was not that player last year. No matter how much some people want to believe that he was, he simply wasn't.

Has he shown signs, from the beginning, that he could be this player? Yes of course. The signs were there. But until this year, his on-ice performance was that of a #6-7 replacement player. He showed enough to keep getting some ice time, and dressing 80 times, but he never seized the opportunity and ran with it.

Until this year. He has performed at a completely different level this year. And as a result, his ice-time, and his role implementation have ratcheted up significantly.

Kylington is not a failure for this organization. He is a success story. Despite possessing tremendous tools, he dropped in the draft from top-5 in his class, to being selected 60th. The Flames nurtured him and developed him, and now - at 24, still young for a defenseman - he is turning into a good, and potentially great player.

How is this, in any way, a miss-handling?

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He is doing really well for a guy that was miss-handled.

Kylington has blossomed this year, and is being rewarded with ice time and opportunity as a commensurate result. He was not that player last year. No matter how much some people want to believe that he was, he simply wasn't.

Has he shown signs, from the beginning, that he could be this player? Yes of course. The signs were there. But until this year, his on-ice performance was that of a #6-7 replacement player. He showed enough to keep getting some ice time, and dressing 80 times, but he never seized the opportunity and ran with it.

Until this year. He has performed at a completely different level this year. And as a result, his ice-time, and his role implementation have ratcheted up significantly.

Kylington is not a failure for this organization. He is a success story. Despite possessing tremendous tools, he dropped in the draft from top-5 in his class, to being selected 60th. The Flames nurtured him and developed him, and now - at 24, still young for a defenseman - he is turning into a good, and potentially great player.

How is this, in any way, a miss-handling?

They were obviously just hiding him from the expansion draft

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

He is doing really well for a guy that was miss-handled.

Kylington has blossomed this year, and is being rewarded with ice time and opportunity as a commensurate result. He was not that player last year. No matter how much some people want to believe that he was, he simply wasn't.

Has he shown signs, from the beginning, that he could be this player? Yes of course. The signs were there. But until this year, his on-ice performance was that of a #6-7 replacement player. He showed enough to keep getting some ice time, and dressing 80 times, but he never seized the opportunity and ran with it.

Until this year. He has performed at a completely different level this year. And as a result, his ice-time, and his role implementation have ratcheted up significantly.

Kylington is not a failure for this organization. He is a success story. Despite possessing tremendous tools, he dropped in the draft from top-5 in his class, to being selected 60th. The Flames nurtured him and developed him, and now - at 24, still young for a defenseman - he is turning into a good, and potentially great player.

How is this, in any way, a miss-handling?

I would love to have been a fly on the wall for the year end discussions with Kylington and Sutter/Treliving last year.

Because whatever they told him worked.

He came in and was ready for the season. Finished 3rd in the fitness testing, looked sharp from the first pre-season game, and really did look just more serious and committed to becoming an NHLer than he ever had before.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How is this, in any way, a miss-handling?

For me, the frustration isn't about the player, it's about the team.

The 2018-19 team was doing just fine with him him in the lineup, and Fantenberg was a liability in the playoffs. And Even if the result had been identical, we wouldn't have been down the draft picks.

I can begrudgingly live with the 2019-20 team not using him in the playoffs because the Forbort-Gustafsson pair was legitimately effective. But would they have been worse with Kylington-Stone? I'm not sure, and we gave up assets to acquire Gustafsson and Forbort.

Last year's team sorely needed Kylington's skillset. Period. With the departure of TJ Brodie, and the lack of a Sebastian Aho or Brayden Point sryle centreman, the team simply played slow. Part of it was certainly conditioning, but a huge part of it was personell. I know that it's easy to waive off our 6-1-1 record in 2020-21 with Kylington in the lineup as an anomaly - especially given his limited icetime and short leash late in game - but there was an impact that was felt by his unique skillset that was readily apparent in those games. In some ways it even trickled up the lineup as the team pace was better in those games.

Personally, I felt Kylington developed a ton in his two or three years spent in the AHL, and merely needed actual NHL reps and legitimate, regular icetime to build confidence and experience at this level. He's getting that now, but he could have got it sooner. The Flames' handling of him last year - when he could have helped the team - was a failure. Likewise Bennett. Both individuals were ready for expanded roles yet did not recieve them. The loser wasn't the individuals, but the team we cheered for.

The additions of Kylington as a regular, as well as Dube as a centre, have done more than quote-unquote develop individuals. They've changed the entire team completion, especially early in games when the score may be tied.

Was Kylington poor for a couple of weeks in 2018-19 just prior to the Fantenberg acquisition? Yes, but most rookies hit a rookie wall.

Was Kylington underwhelming in 2019-20? Yes, but his on-ice shooting percentage was unsustainably low. A better partner (like Forbort, by the way) would have helped his underlyings as well. There even started to be a narrative that Kylington was a poor possession player, when past pairings such as Kylington-Prout and Kylington-Andersson disproved that.

[TheIronMaiden]

It is hard to argue that patience was not the best strategy for Kyllington's development.

D men need time to develop, and while the average age of D men is younger than it used to be, it is still around the 26 year old age range. At 24 Kyllington is tracking right where he should be.


https://www.tsn.ca/nhl-increasingly-...emen-1.1148442


I think that he is a more complete player now, for having had a tight leash, and for having player fewer than 100 games before the age of 24.

[Bingo]

He's way better defensively ... but thing that crept back into his game on Saturday that worries me is that standing still stickhandling stuff ... especially in the third period.

That was one of his biggest issues in the previous seasons. He's gotten stronger, and smarter in his positioning (defending better), less turnovers ... but he has to move his feet with the puck or he's too easy to defend against.

[GioforPM]

I don’t see how slowly developing a Dman is necessarily mishandling him. It all depends on what the guy could do, and what his pace was.

[dino7c]

Didn't everyone praise Detroit for two decades for slowly bringing guys into the league after long AHL stints and low NHL minutes to start?

[Matata]

From the onset, Kylington was going to be a player that needed to be over-ripe and physically mature to be effective in the NHL, it's very hard to transition his highly dynamic style into NHL calibre. I think his development was particularly fragile because he was a physically weak player who needed to do a lot of growth, but also had a lot gifts, so he needed to be protected while given long enough of a leash to let his gifts flourish. I'm really impressed with how he's been handled.

[Tkachukwagon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1456616427247472648