2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

True but if Buffalo does not agree with the value of the trade IMO Reinhart alone is enough. I think Reinhart will sign for similar money to what Tkachuk currently makes where Tkachuk is looking like $9 mil aav. Buffalo might not feel they need to add anything but that shouldn’t block the deal

IMO it makes a lot sense too because Reinhart has shown no interest in signing long term with Buffalo and he remains unsigned now. Contract problem for contract problem but a win for the Flames as Reinhart might not be a contract problem for them. Not sure if Tkachuk is interested in staying long term in Buffalo but he does have 2 years before ufa vs Reinhart 1.

If BT traded Matthew Tkachuk' straight up for Reinhart he should be run out of town.

[SeanCharles]

All this talk about trading Tkachuk is madness..

A year ago Tkachuk was untouchable and the lifeblood of the team now after 1 bad season and the threat of a $9mill QO and we have all turned our backs.

News flash, his game fell off the rails after he had no support after the puck flip and was told to tone it down. Tkachuk is not the type of player you tell to tone it down unless he is actively costing you games or is licking opponents or something. We need players that lead us into battle. Historically we have been too soft, folded too easily, never had the killer instinct when the smell of blood was in the air. We need a guy like Tkachuk doing what he does best.

Just cause he has a $9mill QO doesn’t mean he can’t sign a long-term deal for less AAV. It actually happens all the time with other RFA’s so I don’t see why it’s all we talk about. It’s just like how we all knew Johnny was leaving as a UFA. Now we all think he will stay..

The core of this team is actually fairly young, we have some high end pieces and some young ones emerging. The sky is not falling.

It doesn’t even bother me that we talk about trading some of our players it’s just we are so contradictory..

We complain about Tkachuk and Monahan being slow but want to trade for Reinhart who has always been known to be not the best skater.

We talk about how Johnny has been so reliant on PP to generate offense but are talking about trading Tkachuk for a package including Olofsson who is historically a poor 5v5 offensive producer. He had 15 of his 32 points on the PP last season. 17 of his 42 the previous season.

This has been one of the most frustrating season as a Flames fan so I get it but it’s even more frustrating reading how quickly we have turned on our players and even worse we are trading them for players that are not going to help us get better.

I just don’t understand the logic of trading the best player in a deal for two lesser players unless you are put into a position where you have to. Especially when said players have the same shortcomings we complain about our other players.

[dying4acup]

Is the $9M QO even a thing? Can’t the Flames opt for team initiated arbitration?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Is the $9M QO even a thing? Can’t the Flames opt for team initiated arbitration?

If they don’t offer him the $9M qualifying offer, he immediately becomes a UFA.

It’s a thing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

All this talk about trading Tkachuk is madness..

A year ago Tkachuk was untouchable and the lifeblood of the team now after 1 bad season and the threat of a $9mill QO and we have all turned our backs.

News flash, his game fell off the rails after he had no support after the puck flip and was told to tone it down. Tkachuk is not the type of player you tell to tone it down unless he is actively costing you games or is licking opponents or something. We need players that lead us into battle. Historically we have been too soft, folded too easily, never had the killer instinct when the smell of blood was in the air. We need a guy like Tkachuk doing what he does best.

Just cause he has a $9mill QO doesn’t mean he can’t sign a long-term deal for less AAV. It actually happens all the time with other RFA’s so I don’t see why it’s all we talk about. It’s just like how we all knew Johnny was leaving as a UFA. Now we all think he will stay..

The core of this team is actually fairly young, we have some high end pieces and some young ones emerging. The sky is not falling.

It doesn’t even bother me that we talk about trading some of our players it’s just we are so contradictory..

We complain about Tkachuk and Monahan being slow but want to trade for Reinhart who has always been known to be not the best skater.

We talk about how Johnny has been so reliant on PP to generate offense but are talking about trading Tkachuk for a package including Olofsson who is historically a poor 5v5 offensive producer. He had 15 of his 32 points on the PP last season. 17 of his 42 the previous season.

This has been one of the most frustrating season as a Flames fan so I get it but it’s even more frustrating reading how quickly we have turned on our players and even worse we are trading them for players that are not going to help us get better.

I just don’t understand the logic of trading the best player in a deal for two lesser players unless you are put into a position where you have to. Especially when said players have the same shortcomings we complain about our other players.

All this talk about trading Tkachuk is because people treat him like an expiring asset. For all intent and purposes I treat him like a UFA at the end of this season. The same as Johnny. I don't see the Flames qualifying him at $9M for one year. That means Tkachuk gets to test the UFA market after this season. I don't see a hometown discount coming.

Also, the reason for the big change of heart many fans, including myself, had is that words are cheap. He talks like he cares, that he takes all the responsibility, and next game he goes back to fancy between the leg passes to try and exit the zone. I don't know if he was pouting this season or what was it! He has proven himself to be largely ineffective for large chunks of the season, and that is not the $9M player I thought he could be.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I’d say take a flyer on Hamonic as a number 5/6 option but we all know Sutter would play him like a number 1/2

But why?

He’s just a bad hockey player at this stage.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

But why?

He’s just a bad hockey player at this stage.

I don’t think he’s horrible but he’d cost too much to be a 5-6.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t think he’s horrible but he’d cost too much to be a 5-6.

He was only getting $1,250,000 on his last deal. If you could get him for an even million, would you bite?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

All this talk about trading Tkachuk is madness..

It's actually quite strategic in nature.

A year ago Tkachuk was untouchable and the lifeblood of the team now after 1 bad season and the threat of a $9mill QO and we have all turned our backs.

Don't be such a drama queen. No one is turning their back on anyone. The intent is to get more depth in the lineup by making a one-for-two deal. Yes, the $9M qualifying offer plays a big role in the decision of who to move, but I would be open to trading Gaudreau in a similar deal and keeping Tkachuk. The intent is to get better by adding more top six depth.

News flash, his game fell off the rails after he had no support after the puck flip and was told to tone it down. Tkachuk is not the type of player you tell to tone it down unless he is actively costing you games or is licking opponents or something. We need players that lead us into battle. Historically we have been too soft, folded too easily, never had the killer instinct when the smell of blood was in the air. We need a guy like Tkachuk doing what he does best.

Says more about Tkachuk than anything. If all it took was a puck flip and his team telling him to act like an adult to ruin his season, that is a player you don't want on your team. That spells headcase. If that is really what sent him in a downward spiral, get him the #### out of town ASAP. The team will be better off without that type of drama.

This has been one of the most frustrating season as a Flames fan so I get it but it’s even more frustrating reading how quickly we have turned on our players and even worse we are trading them for players that are not going to help us get better.

No one has turned on anyone. Get over it. Players are fungible assets in today's pro sports, just like teams are fungible to the players. Don't get too attached to any player because they seldom have any loyalty to you or the team you cheer for. They will change jerseys if the money is right.

I just don’t understand the logic of trading the best player in a deal for two lesser players unless you are put into a position where you have to. Especially when said players have the same shortcomings we complain about our other players.

You mean like when Treliving traded Hamilton and spare parts for Lindholm and Hanifin? Two lesser players that turned out to be superior team players and gave the team more depth? Yeah, that was a dumb deal.



The reality of the NHL is depth trumps super stars. Vegas is a team without superstar players, but they have depth that grinds you into the ground. Calgary should be emulating that model, not chasing the unicorns like they do in Edmonton. Money puck is real and it is effective. Give me two guys that will put up 50-60 points versus a single guy who puts up 70-80 for similar money, and I'll have better results. That's the bottom line. Results.

[MrMike]

I’m sure he’d take a bit of a discount to stay in western Canada if he has the option. But at that price I think he’d just stay with the Canucks.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

He was only getting $1,250,000 on his last deal. If you could get him for an even million, would you bite?

Maybe. I didn’t watch him much this year TBH. I can’t imagine he’s not worthy of bottom pairing and PK duties though. And he’s a standup guy when things get rough.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The reality of the NHL is depth trumps super stars. Vegas is a team without superstar players, but they have depth that grinds you into the ground. Calgary should be emulating that model, not chasing the unicorns like they do in Edmonton. Money puck is real and it is effective. Give me two guys that will put up 50-60 points versus a single guy who puts up 70-80 for similar money, and I'll have better results. That's the bottom line. Results.

I agree with most of what you said except this. When acquiring those 50-60 point guys you have to really consider where they make their points. PP1 only has 5 players on it. A lot of time once a player finds himself not meshing with a PP or being demoted to PP2 his production and confidence suffer. I think that the Brouwer and the Neal signings were in large part trying to build depth. I realize you’re talking trade, but I remember the Sutter days with all the 20 goal scorers. I remember all those proven 20 goal scorers Tre brought, that’s not always how it works out. At some point I thought Stajan could be a 50-60 point player with the Flames, Jokinen a first line centre and so on….

I think a team needs game breakers, especially when the going gets tough. That said I don’t see Tkachuk as such a player anymore.

[dino7c]

Tkachuk had 77 points in the last full NHL season

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Tkachuk had 77 points in the last full NHL season

Yes, he did! However, last season he wasn’t having success simply because of puck luck. He looked disinterested in games. He tried to make fancy plays I as a fan knew were coming… so they were very predictable to the opposition. He fought more this year, but I thought he did a worse job at getting teams off their game. I thought he was okay physically, but he seemed less physical than before.

In my mind, he wasn’t as successful as a direct result of the work he did on the ice. It had nothing to do with puck luck. Perhaps he needs Backlund to be more effective, but during half the season he was the one dragging his line down.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's actually quite strategic in nature.

First of all I will concede to you on a couple of your points because I want to improve our top 6 depth and agree players don’t always have allegiances to the team so they are movable and you can’t always get attached.

But:

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Says more about Tkachuk than anything. If all it took was a puck flip and his team telling him to act like an adult to ruin his season, that is a player you don't want on your team. That spells headcase. If that is really what sent him in a downward spiral, get him the #### out of town ASAP. The team will be better off without that type of drama.

The kid plays with his heart on his sleeve and had a bad season and looked a lot better near the end of the year. He is young and maturing and to be fair he is actually pretty mature for his age. I for one will give him a pass on this COVID, fan free season.

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

You mean like when Treliving traded Hamilton and spare parts for Lindholm and Hanifin? Two lesser players that turned out to be superior team players and gave the team more depth? Yeah, that was a dumb deal.

Ok when it comes to Lindholm and Hanifin they were both acquired when they were 21 and 23 years old or something. They were high picks with tonnes of runway ahead of them to breakout, which is exactly what Lindholm did. I am all for a home run looking deal like that but when I see Reinhart and Olofsson getting thrown around for Tkachuk, guys who will be 26-27 to start next season, it’s not the same thing.

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The reality of the NHL is depth trumps super stars. Vegas is a team without superstar players, but they have depth that grinds you into the ground. Calgary should be emulating that model, not chasing the unicorns like they do in Edmonton. Money puck is real and it is effective. Give me two guys that will put up 50-60 points versus a single guy who puts up 70-80 for similar money, and I'll have better results. That's the bottom line. Results.

Yea Vegas, a team with Fleury, Stone, Pietrangelo and Theodore are just a depth team that grinds you into the ground..

How many teams can say they have superstars? Like 4? TB, EDM, COL, PIT?

What is your definition of a super star?

Mark Stone scoring at a point per game pace over the last 4 seasons while also being elite defensively may not be super star calibre but it’s damn close. If he stayed healthy he would be putting up 80 point seasons.

Fleury looking like a top 3 goalie since arriving in Vegas after the career he’s had may not technically meet super star standards but he is one of the best at stopping pucks.

Having two #1 Dmen that aren’t super stars but continue to score goals, set up plays and shut down opponents is not a luxury most teams have.

Calling Vegas merely a depth team is disingenuous, they have top players, at every position, that can be discussed in the same conversation as any other top player in the league.

Yes, they have depth but they also have a handful of the best players. If they aren’t exactly “super stars” so be it.

What we need to do is continue to build through the draft and keep a look out for opportunities to snatch up good players that teams want to move on from - much like Lindholm and Hanifin.

Yes, if Tkachuk is gonna play hard ball and wants top dollar you look at trading him before it’s too late but, much like Johnny, if these guys are willing to stay for a fair amount you do it.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

If they don’t offer him the $9M qualifying offer, he immediately becomes a UFA.

It’s a thing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I thought that the team could offer arbitration for as little as 2/3 of the QO instead. Was this changed in the last CBA? If not, what’s the point of the team elected ARB?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

I thought that the team could offer arbitration for as little as 2/3 of the QO instead. Was this changed in the last CBA? If not, what’s the point of the team elected ARB?

If it’s team elected in the first window:

Club electing for Arbitration in the first window can be made in lieu of a Qualifying Offer [CBA 12.3(a)(ii)]

Player cannot be awarded less than 85% of his previous years combined base salary, signing bonuses and performance bonuses [CBA 12.3(a)(iii)]

Tkachuk gets paid $9M in his last year. Which means that the absolute best case scenario is $7.65M. That would still be only a one year contract.

[868904]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

All this talk about trading Tkachuk is because people treat him like an expiring asset. For all intent and purposes I treat him like a UFA at the end of this season. The same as Johnny. I don't see the Flames qualifying him at $9M for one year. That means Tkachuk gets to test the UFA market after this season. I don't see a hometown discount coming.

Also, the reason for the big change of heart many fans, including myself, had is that words are cheap. He talks like he cares, that he takes all the responsibility, and next game he goes back to fancy between the leg passes to try and exit the zone. I don't know if he was pouting this season or what was it! He has proven himself to be largely ineffective for large chunks of the season, and that is not the $9M player I thought he could be.

If Tkachuk goes back to his point per game pace and goes back to his on ice shenanigans, he is worth $9 million a year. The question is was this past year an aberration or can his upward trajectory prior to last year continue?

This was the first bump in the road for Tkachuk. He had been trending up prior to last season. Was it because of his concussion from the prior playoffs and covid which derailed a good Summer of training?

It wouldn’t be the worst thing if he stuck around and came to camp in the best shape of his life with a chip on his shoulder.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Tkachuk isn’t merely “borderline first line upside”. He’s either definitely first line quality now, or at least borderline first line quality now (not upside).

I agree, the main question is whether they want a player that well known or whether they want all future upside. If the former, I don’t see any other team offering as good as Tkachuk. If the latter, no, the Flames can’t match.

How many teams have good enough prospects and the cap space to take on a $10m salary?

IMO, Buffalo is going to want a young established star player coming back anyway so yes the answer is likely the former, I also think they would take a little less to send him west away from Buffalo.

[TheScorpion]

If Mark Stone isn't a superstar, I'm not sure who is. He's probably the best two-way player in the game.