The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
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03-08-2021, 04:10 PM
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#2
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
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I wish the guy was in Jail but if the court system screws up and gives you a racist judge why is that the defendants problem. That seems like societies failure to provide a proper trial.
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03-08-2021, 04:49 PM
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#3
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary - Centre West
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
I wish the guy was in Jail but if the court system screws up and gives you a racist judge why is that the defendants problem. That seems like societies failure to provide a proper trial.
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Do you know what an appeal is? It's available to both the prosecution and the defense for a reason.
__________________
-James
GO FLAMES GO.
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03-08-2021, 05:07 PM
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#4
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: In my office, at the Ministry of Awesome!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
I wish the guy was in Jail but if the court system screws up and gives you a racist judge why is that the defendants problem. That seems like societies failure to provide a proper trial.
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I don't think that's a very strong argument. Aside from the fact that "Well the system that is supposed to ensure justice for a victim failed this this victim, so no justice for them" is exactly the kind of thing the system should be set up to remedy, the reason the system failed in this case is an even stronger argument for their to be a method to remedy the error. It wasn't a procedural issue, it was a judge being a racist jerk.
If this was a case about murdering a black man, and there happened to be a racist judge who ignored evidence, no reasonable person would make that argument. The fact that the racism wasn't directed at a defendant, but at a witness is no reason to excuse it, and say "Well, better luck next time".
I'm not at all implying that you think it's okay that the judge was racist, or that you share his views.
I'm just pointing out that the fact that this is going to another trial because if it, is a sign that the system is working as it should, despite a terrible prior issue.
__________________
THE SHANTZ WILL RISE AGAIN.
<-----Check the Badge bitches. You want some Awesome, you come to me!
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03-08-2021, 05:32 PM
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#5
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
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This is the third trial, this seems like it’s getting ridiculous. If this guy was innocent (which our system presumes him to me) For 8 years this has been going on for. Is it reasonable to subject an innocent person to persecution for 8 years?
Now in this case I hope he is convicted and goes to jail as his stupidity led to his sons death and he continues to profit from the notoriety gained from his sons death and stupidity. But this appears to be the Justice system failing.
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03-08-2021, 06:15 PM
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#6
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
This is the third trial, this seems like it’s getting ridiculous. If this guy was innocent (which our system presumes him to me) For 8 years this has been going on for. Is it reasonable to subject an innocent person to persecution for 8 years?
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Well if they didn't want to drag the legal fight on for 8 years they could have always taken the first judgement.
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03-08-2021, 06:51 PM
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#7
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
This is the third trial, this seems like it’s getting ridiculous. If this guy was innocent (which our system presumes him to me) For 8 years this has been going on for. Is it reasonable to subject an innocent person to persecution for 8 years?
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They're presumed innocent until proven guilty after a fair hearing. The delay has been necessary in this case to ensure that they receive a fair hearing. It's good to know that in extraordinary cases, the system will actually go to these types of lengths to ensure that the process happens the way it's meant to.
The reasons given for the ABCA decision make sense. The comments made by Clackson were odd, particularly because they seem so unnecessary. He could easily have said he didn't find the expert's testimony convincing without specifically talking about his accent and fluency. That said, it actually is the case that a thick accent matters - we do in fact take that into account when choosing experts. I've had instances where an expert's accent even helps... I'm thinking of one I've used who had a very down-to-earth presentation accompanied with a southeastern drawl that was easy to listen to and at the same time gave the impression of no-nonsense candor. Presentation of expert opinion becomes all the more important when the evidence is hard enough for a layperson to follow just due to its technical nature.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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The Following User Says Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
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03-09-2021, 07:43 AM
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#8
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
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It is a shame it is taking this long to have a proper trial, but it is rather incredible what Clarkson said. I am certain that the defense lawyers read that decision and said, "well, I have good news, and some bad news..." The comments were offensive and unnecessary and an appeal would have been automatic given the circumstances.
Now then, please have a competent trial.
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
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03-09-2021, 07:52 AM
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#9
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Scoring Winger
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I doubt this third trial will go forward. Doesn't seem to be in the interest of justice to try them a third time.
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03-09-2021, 08:06 AM
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#10
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary - Centre West
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadianman
I doubt this third trial will go forward. Doesn't seem to be in the interest of justice to try them a third time.
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People with unfounded beliefs about what constitutes medicine (in service of providing the necessities of life) should not be allowed to put the lives of their children at risk because of those beliefs. Explain how setting that precedent is not in the interest of justice.
__________________
-James
GO FLAMES GO.
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The Following User Says Thank You to TorqueDog For This Useful Post:
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03-09-2021, 09:22 AM
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#11
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Norm!
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I won't pretend that I'm smart enough to understand the legal system of appeals.
I will say, that if there's anyway to stop these morons, its a good thing. Their casting blame around their kids death to me is offensive, No matter what anyone says, they killed their kid because they're morons, and conspiracy nutters.
David is a dangerous person and a con man, I find it offensive that this guy was selling "cures" to serious medical and mental health conditions, and discouraging people from seeking advice from what he's not, actual medical and health care personal.
He's a typical dangerous conspiracy theory nut, no better then the Qanon nutbars that we class as dangerous. And again, he killed his son with his voodoo magic and then smugly blamed everyone else. He's not a hero to the little guy, he's not a hero to anyone.
I get what everyone is saying about third appeals. But the Alberta Court of Appeals found reason to order a new trial, get it right, make sure they do it properly and either let him go, or toss him in a cell so he can stop harming others.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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03-09-2021, 03:18 PM
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#12
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadianman
I doubt this third trial will go forward. Doesn't seem to be in the interest of justice to try them a third time.
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disagree. It will be in the best interest of justice it does go forward.
If it didn't go ahead, the only people it will be in the best interest of is the people who killed their own child.
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03-09-2021, 03:30 PM
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#13
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonBlue
disagree. It will be in the best interest of justice it does go forward.
If it didn't go ahead, the only people it will be in the best interest of is the people who killed their own child.
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I guess we will see.
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03-09-2021, 03:45 PM
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#14
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: On your last nerve...:D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
This is the third trial, this seems like it’s getting ridiculous. If this guy was innocent (which our system presumes him to me) For 8 years this has been going on for. Is it reasonable to subject an innocent person to persecution for 8 years?
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Not aimed at you personally, just to clarify - but...oh boo hoo, the guy's been walking around breathing air for the past 8 years while the child he failed to protect is decomposing under 6 feet of earth. Poor poor hard done by parents, able to live and breathe and knock boots and create more kids they can murder. Let me get my tiny violin out and play it for the Stephans.
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03-09-2021, 08:32 PM
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#15
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnie
Not aimed at you personally, just to clarify - but...oh boo hoo, the guy's been walking around breathing air for the past 8 years while the child he failed to protect is decomposing under 6 feet of earth. Poor poor hard done by parents, able to live and breathe and knock boots and create more kids they can murder. Let me get my tiny violin out and play it for the Stephans.
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That’s the challenge of the Justice system. The least deserving people get as much protection as the most deserving.
Question for the lawyers in the thread. At what point would the crown lose the right to try again?
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03-10-2021, 08:36 AM
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#16
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
That’s the challenge of the Justice system. The least deserving people get as much protection as the most deserving.
Question for the lawyers in the thread. At what point would the crown lose the right to try again?
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MBates would be a better source, but in this case, it really isn't the "justice delayed is justice denied" scenario. Trial happens, it is appealed (I think within 30 days for civil cases, not sure on criminal but likely similar). Appeal decision required a new trial. New trial happens. New trial is appealed within the appropriate time frame. Not an ideal situation, but he isn't rotting in jail.
__________________
From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
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03-10-2021, 08:48 AM
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#17
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Norm!
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I have a great deal of trouble in separating the emotional side of this case from the law, its why I would be lousy in any kind of law related field.
The emotional side in me looks at the Stepen's as reprehensible human beings. Just looking at how they and specifically David acted during the trial and on social media was gross to me, the fact that he sells what I think are dangerous ideals for profit is wrong.
From the legal side, if the Court of Appeals has ordered another trial, then I have no trouble with that, the law needs to be equally applied. Hopefully we get resolution one way or another.
I kind of chuckled though, I honestly would be the worst juror ever if I was ever asked.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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06-22-2021, 08:43 PM
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#19
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Franchise Player
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Brutal. I don't know what to say. This whole ordeal seems to have been a disaster. Convicted the first time, acquitted the second time, and now the charges are gone. Poof.
__________________
But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
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06-22-2021, 09:41 PM
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#20
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
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Maybe they will get Covid,
Also is the racist judge still a judge?
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