02-28-2021, 09:55 AM
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#41
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Franchise Player
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This was the line-up that was very competitive with Dallas... w/ Tkachuk hurt and then out for a great portion of it.
Trying to get 4 lines that can be rolled is pretty much impossible in the cap era unless you have 3-4 ELC players. Having replacement level players playing anything expect 4th line minutes is a recipe for failure.
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02-28-2021, 10:04 AM
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#42
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Appealing my suspension
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Just outside Enemy Lines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Why? Lots of D have converted. Don’t know til you try.
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How many Defenceman at the age of 23 have converted to wing and stayed there? Especially smaller guys who rely on skating and mobility.
Burns and Bufuglien played both in Junior, and both eventually settled at D. They were also big bodied guys who could crash and bang and crowd the net. Things that Kylington is not equipped to do.
This isn't Mens second Division rec league. Trying to reprogram a 23 year old with Kylington's skill set is extremely unlikely to work.
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"Some guys like old balls"
Patriots QB Tom Brady
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02-28-2021, 10:57 AM
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#43
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Van City - Main St.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
TBF, I think both Monahan and Gaudreau have raised their physical game this year. Monahan is trying to use his body in the forecheck, and Gaudreau isn’t wasting time looking for calls. They are both a little less predictable, what with Johnny shooting and Monahan passing.
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Maybe, time will tell...if we get to the playoffs.
Hopefully you're right but I'm disappointed we're back to the same formation that hasn't worked for 3 playoffs.
I understand it's likely what's best with the roster we have, but I'm not confident they'd get over that playoff hump.
Happy to be wrong if they do.
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02-28-2021, 11:29 AM
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#44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates
Maybe, time will tell...if we get to the playoffs.
Hopefully you're right but I'm disappointed we're back to the same formation that hasn't worked for 3 playoffs.
I understand it's likely what's best with the roster we have, but I'm not confident they'd get over that playoff hump.
Happy to be wrong if they do.
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I truly don’t understand this.
Have you seen the body of work the first 21 games?
I am far from disappointed, rather I am pleased that Ward seems to have finally come to his senses.
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02-28-2021, 01:36 PM
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#45
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
I truly don’t understand this.
Have you seen the body of work the first 21 games?
I am far from disappointed, rather I am pleased that Ward seems to have finally come to his senses.
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I get his concerns, I share them. These lines didn’t work when the going got tough last year, and just blaming Ward is a cop out. They didn’t work under Peters the year before.
Having two very good Cs who are a threat to score is a remedy for not having a top tier C like Matthews or MacKinnon. The purple Gatorade line is really good against a soft defensive team like the Sens. I want to see them deal with tighter D.
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02-28-2021, 01:55 PM
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#46
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
I get his concerns, I share them. These lines didn’t work when the going got tough last year, and just blaming Ward is a cop out. They didn’t work under Peters the year before.
Having two very good Cs who are a threat to score is a remedy for not having a top tier C like Matthews or MacKinnon. The purple Gatorade line is really good against a soft defensive team like the Sens. I want to see them deal with tighter D.
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You mean beating the worst team in the league with a goalie that couldn't save a beachball isn't all the proof you need?
It's actually kind of sad that Ward has to stack the top line just to beat Ottawa. This team might make the playoffs doing that, but if they can't spread depth throughout the line-up, they aren't going to make it far in the playoffs.
Ward's line experiments may not have paid off, but I understand why he was doing it.
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02-28-2021, 02:03 PM
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#47
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Appealing my suspension
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Just outside Enemy Lines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
You mean beating the worst team in the league with a goalie that couldn't save a beachball isn't all the proof you need?
It's actually kind of sad that Ward has to stack the top line just to beat Ottawa. This team might make the playoffs doing that, but if they can't spread depth throughout the line-up, they aren't going to make it far in the playoffs.
Ward's line experiments may not have paid off, but I understand why he was doing it.
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So what do you want them to do? Keep going with lines that don't work and keep losing 6-1?
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Patriots QB Tom Brady
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02-28-2021, 02:05 PM
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#48
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
You mean beating the worst team in the league with a goalie that couldn't save a beachball isn't all the proof you need?
It's actually kind of sad that Ward has to stack the top line just to beat Ottawa. This team might make the playoffs doing that, but if they can't spread depth throughout the line-up, they aren't going to make it far in the playoffs.
Ward's line experiments may not have paid off, but I understand why he was doing it.
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I agree with all of that. It’s why, while I think Ward can easily be improved upon, saying it was “crazy” he was starting Lindholm at C was something I pushed back against. Not only did it make some sense on paper, the Flames’ first three games looked fine. Then they had a break and played the top two teams in the division at the the time, losing close games to Toronto in which Monahan and Gaudreau were still producing.
I agree they should keep the present lineup for a while, but if they can ever find a good two way RW to take Lindholm’s spot, Lindholm should be a C.
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02-28-2021, 02:12 PM
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#49
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
I agree with all of that. It’s why, while I think Ward can easily be improved upon, saying it was “crazy” he was starting Lindholm at C was something I pushed back against. Not only did it make some sense on paper, the Flames’ first three games looked fine. Then they had a break and played the top two teams in the division at the the time, losing close games to Toronto in which Monahan and Gaudreau were still producing.
I agree they should keep the present lineup for a while, but if they can ever find a good two way RW to take Lindholm’s spot, Lindholm should be a C.
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Id be willing to wager thats what tree is looking for with Bennett. I think it's only a matter of time for Benny now. Personally I'd like him to stay but...
I keep swinging back to the Colorado rumor and I keep thinking Nichushkin. Not an RHS but defensively comparable I think to Lindy. And who knows what he could produce having Monny and Johnny as line mates.
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02-28-2021, 02:28 PM
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#50
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammage79
Id be willing to wager thats what tree is looking for with Bennett. I think it's only a matter of time for Benny now. Personally I'd like him to stay but...
I keep swinging back to the Colorado rumor and I keep thinking Nichushkin. Not an RHS but defensively comparable I think to Lindy. And who knows what he could produce having Monny and Johnny as line mates.
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The one guy they’ve never ride is Dube, which baffles me.
I think Bennett is more effective as a C between two high IQ but north south guys like Dube and Lucic. I didn’t think much of his play on the Monahan line despite a couple jam in goals. He was better than Leivo or Simon but still not really adding much. And his defence isn’t great which is part of what those two guys need.
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02-28-2021, 03:16 PM
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#51
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Franchise Player
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This team needs a right shot power forward. Team has got too many fill-in wingers that shoot left. Same with defense. It's kind of odd that most people in hockey shoots left but writes with their right hand. When the Flames won the Stanley Cup in '89, they had depth on and skilled players that were right hand shot. Seems for the last 30 years, the Flames have a gaping hole at center or at right wing and/or right hand shot D-man. And the only thing management has done over the years is to fill in the holes with goalies.
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02-28-2021, 03:25 PM
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#52
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSharp
This team needs a right shot power forward. Team has got too many fill-in wingers that shoot left. Same with defense. It's kind of odd that most people in hockey shoots left but writes with their right hand. When the Flames won the Stanley Cup in '89, they had depth on and skilled players that were right hand shot. Seems for the last 30 years, the Flames have a gaping hole at center or at right wing and/or right hand shot D-man. And the only thing management has done over the years is to fill in the holes with goalies.
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At some point players switched shooting hands to be opposite their writing hand. I don’t know when. When I grew up if you wrote right, you shot right.
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02-28-2021, 03:29 PM
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#53
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
At some point players switched shooting hands to be opposite their writing hand. I don’t know when. When I grew up if you wrote right, you shot right.
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When I grew up you learned to shoot with your first free stick
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02-28-2021, 03:42 PM
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#54
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Brett Connolly just got put on waivers, he could be an option for the monohan gaudreau line.
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02-28-2021, 04:09 PM
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#56
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvanfan
So what do you want them to do? Keep going with lines that don't work and keep losing 6-1?
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Not saying that at all.
It's far enough into the season that he needs to cut the rope and fall back to whatever works. It's just a shame that there does not appear to be more options and more flexibility with this roster. This team doesn't have a Matthews, McDavid, or MacKinnon. Players that are going to pull through no matter what. On paper, this team's strength is supposed to be it's depth and deployment options. In reality, it hasn't played out that way which is unfortunate. I think it's time to turn the page and a roster shake-up is needed, but it won't be easy to make big changes this year.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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02-28-2021, 04:53 PM
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#57
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
I get his concerns, I share them. These lines didn’t work when the going got tough last year, and just blaming Ward is a cop out. They didn’t work under Peters the year before.
Having two very good Cs who are a threat to score is a remedy for not having a top tier C like Matthews or MacKinnon. The purple Gatorade line is really good against a soft defensive team like the Sens. I want to see them deal with tighter D.
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1) the Flames were missing their best highest paid player.
Pretending that the team is going to be successful with Tkachuk missing is absurd.
Sort of like spiking the ball when spanking Winnipeg when they were missing their two best forwards.
Try to provide an example of a team having playoff success when their best forward is injured (or not playing at a very high level)
2) The #1 D man just played poorly in the playoffs. Once again try to imagine any playoff success if the #1 d-man played as poorly as Gio. Rather than leading the team he was a drag on it.
3) Arguably the best line in the playoffs was Bennett Lucic and Dube. Maybe work with that rather than trying to go full blender get some value out of Leivo and Simon who were not wanted for the league min salary where they left
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02-28-2021, 04:55 PM
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#58
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
1) the Flames were missing their best highest paid player.
Pretending that the team is going to be successful with Tkachuk missing is absurd.
Sort of like spiking the ball when spanking Winnipeg when they were missing their two best forwards.
Try to provide an example of a team having playoff success when their best forward is injured (or not playing at a very high level)
2) The #1 D man just played poorly in the playoffs. Once again try to imagine any playoff success if the #1 d-man played as poorly as Gio. Rather than leading the team he was a drag on it.
3) Arguably the best line in the playoffs was Bennett Lucic and Dube. Maybe work with that rather than trying to go full blender get some value out of Leivo and Simon who were not wanted for the league min salary where they left
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Now do two years ago.
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02-28-2021, 05:03 PM
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#59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Now do two years ago.
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Monahan was playing with a broken thumb
Last edited by DeluxeMoustache; 02-28-2021 at 05:08 PM.
Reason: Autocorrect volunteered Monaghan as a spelling
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02-28-2021, 05:12 PM
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#60
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache
Monahan was playing with a broken thumb
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Doesn't count. The year Langkow played the whole playoffs with two broken hands, CP had their pitchforks out. A lot of posters were saying over and over that injuries are no excuse for losing.
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