2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[RedHawk12]

From the times I've seen Kuemper, he does look positionally sound. Doesn't rely too much on sprawling/athletic saves, which for me would be a bigger concern for sudden drop off.

That being said, I hope if we were trading our first, we should be getting more than Kuemper back in a bigger deal with more players involved on both sides.

[GioforPM]

I like a 6’5” goalie.

That’s the post.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I guarantee that if the Flames trade for Kuemper, you will hear the phrase "low mileage goalie" get dropped by Treliving.

"30 isn't old for a goalie, and in Darcy's case especially, he's a low mileage goalie. He has less than 300 pro games under his belt and we feel he is just hitting his stride"

While I don't necessarily disagree, DON'T TRADE OUR 1ST ROUND PICK! lol

Of course he'll say those things, because they are true. 30 is not old for a goaltender and he has played a low number of games.

This season of the 57 goalies to play 20+ games, Kuemper was the 33rd oldest and 10 of those goalies are at least 5 years older than Kuemper.

[VladtheImpaler]

Everybody seemingly is looking to shed salary, some more desperately than others. In a situation like that, WTF would we be offer prime assets, such as a 1st rounder in a good draft, for players who are on chunky deals? It is not like there is a lot of competition. You want to shed salary? To quote Goodfellas - f*** you, pay me. Yeah, if Coyotes are taking Lucic back or something, that's a different story, but if they want to save 4.5M, that ain't free, especially now. It is a bloody buyer's market, so we better not be trading a 1st for a 30 year-old goalie with limited resume...

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Everybody seemingly is looking to shed salary, some more desperately than others. In a situation like that, WTF would we be offer prime assets, such as a 1st rounder in a good draft, for players who are on chunky deals? It is not like there is a lot of competition. You want to shed salary? To quote Goodfellas - f*** you, pay me. Yeah, if Coyotes are taking Lucic back or something, that's a different story, but if they want to save 4.5M, that ain't free, especially now. It is a bloody buyer's market, so we better not be trading a 1st for a 30 year-old goalie with limited resume...

This. It appears there’s no shortage of teams trying to cut payroll. Wait them out.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

That’s my worry though. If you spend a 1st you better be getting a goalie that’s clearly head and shoulders better than Rittich.

At 5v5 Kuemper over the last three seasons is pretty much equal to Rittich. So why spend a first on a guy who actually might not be better.

I worry that his PK performance might be luck / system driven.

What's the alternative? Murray's asking price is also a 1st, and even if it's two 2nds instead I take Kuemper all day long. So who else is out there? Markstrom and Lehner both look to be staying put.

2019/2020:

Rittich:
LDSV%: .971
MDSV%: .890
HDSV%: .836
GSAA: -3.80
SV%: .916

Kuemper:
LDSV%: .985
MDSV%: .913
HDSV%: .841
GSAA: +2.27
SV%: .932

Kuemper is significantly better goalie than Rittich is.

I'd be more comfortable with Kuemper + Talbot than I would be Kuemper + Rittich at the end of the day as well.

[blender]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Everybody seemingly is looking to shed salary, some more desperately than others. In a situation like that, WTF would we be offer prime assets, such as a 1st rounder in a good draft, for players who are on chunky deals? It is not like there is a lot of competition. You want to shed salary? To quote Goodfellas - f*** you, pay me. Yeah, if Coyotes are taking Lucic back or something, that's a different story, but if they want to save 4.5M, that ain't free, especially now. It is a bloody buyer's market, so we better not be trading a 1st for a 30 year-old goalie with limited resume...

Quoted for Goodfelllas reference

[kyuss275]

I just can’t see Tre giving up a 1st for Kuemper ? He didn’t want to give up high prices for Established goalies like Fleury or Bishop. Now he has no problem giving up a 1st for someone maybe marginally better than Talbot? Sorry I don’t buy it.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I just can’t see Tre giving up a 1st for Kuemper ? He didn’t want to give up high prices for Established goalies like Fleury or Bishop. Now he has no problem giving up a 1st for someone maybe marginally better than Talbot? Sorry I don’t buy it.

Those were also deals where we didn't know where our pick would be, or even if we would make the playoffs. The situations are very different.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

What's the alternative? Murray's asking price is also a 1st, and even if it's two 2nds instead I take Kuemper all day long. So who else is out there? Markstrom and Lehner both look to be staying put.

2019/2020:

Rittich:
LDSV%: .971
MDSV%: .890
HDSV%: .836
GSAA: -3.80
SV%: .916

Kuemper:
LDSV%: .985
MDSV%: .913
HDSV%: .841
GSAA: +2.27
SV%: .932

Kuemper is significantly better goalie than Rittich is.

I'd be more comfortable with Kuemper + Talbot than I would be Kuemper + Rittich at the end of the day as well.

He was a better goalie last season but IMO you should never look at one season of a goalie.

Looking at the last three years they are equal at 5v5 and Kuemper is better on the PK.

I don’t think that upgrade should cost you a first.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

He was a better goalie last season but IMO you should never look at one season of a goalie.

Looking at the last three years they are equal at 5v5 and Kuemper is better on the PK.

I don’t think that upgrade should cost you a first.

How do you think those 5v5 numbers were "equal", the high and medium danger are close, but low danger there is a significant difference due to the number of soft goals Rittich gives up.

And you also posted PK numbers and as you pointed out Kuemper was significantly better, which makes me think of the old adage, your best PKer is your goaltender.

[dammage79]

How do the Flames go around trading for Dumba?

I think he would be a viable acquisition. And no, don't trade any D men for him.

For me I think Mangiapane and extras go the other way.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by dammage79

How do the Flames go around trading for Dumba?

I think he would be a viable acquisition. And no, don't trade any D men for him.

For me I think Mangiapane and extras go the other way.

If we don’t trade any D men for him then we’re in the same problem Minni is in. Losing too good of a defencemen at the expansion draft.

[1_Flames_Fan]

No thank you to giving up a first for Kuemper and hell no to trading for OEL and his crippling contract without the Yotes paying a very significant portion of that salary.

Sent from my IN2025 using Tapatalk

[Harry Lime]

The most interesting situation (for me) is coming out of Minnesota, where Dubnyk is in his last season, making $4.33M. He was outplayed last year by Stalock, who both played more games during the season, and was the coach's choice for the playoffs.

They have the AHL goaltender of the year ready to come up in a backup role, as well.

With all of this talk of goalies, I think that Dubnyk could be had for very little. Like straight up for Ryan. He has only had two bad seasons, his last in Edmonton, and this last season, and he is 33 years old. Not much of a commitment either, on a one year deal.

If Minnesota is in on the 'sweepstakes' for either of the two big players in Calgary I would look at him as part of the return, as well.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by MrMike

If we don’t trade any D men for him then we’re in the same problem Minni is in. Losing too good of a defencemen at the expansion draft.

Andersson, Hanifin, Dumba? Who am I missing? Gio? Kylington?

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by MrMike

If we don’t trade any D men for him then we’re in the same problem Minni is in. Losing too good of a defencemen at the expansion draft.

Then you expose Giordano who will be 38 before Seattle ever steps on the ice for the first time.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

How do you think those 5v5 numbers were "equal", the high and medium danger are close, but low danger there is a significant difference due to the number of soft goals Rittich gives up.

And you also posted PK numbers and as you pointed out Kuemper was significantly better, which makes me think of the old adage, your best PKer is your goaltender.

The goals saved above average number for each of them was in the 4.5 range at 5v5.

Rittich was slightly better in high danger and medium danger, Kuemper was much better in low danger.

Seems pretty close to me...not really “let’s spend a 1st to upgrade” range.

And the PK numbers were significantly better but that isn’t necessarily repeatable. PK relies a lot on system and is a small sample size (400 minutes of PK, vs 4000+ minutes at 5v5. ) So I put a lot more stock in the larger sample size for sure.

[ComixZone]

My biggest question back to you SuperMatt is are you comfortable rolling with Rittich as your lead goalie in a tandem?

Do you think this team can win a Stanley Cup with Rittich and Talbot as the tandem? I certainly do not, because both goalies, in both of their respective roles, fell on their faces.

Kuemper is a top 10 goalie, Rittich is nowhere near that. Could Rittich improve? Yeah, but why are we rolling the dice on the goaltending position when it has been a constant weakness of this team for the last 6 years? If you don't improve the goalie position, you may as well just fold the hand and sell everyone that has any value because this team won't win without notably improving the goaltending position.

Any arguments than Kuemper isn't a big enough upgrade on Rittich to be the tandem leader is really that you're not interested in upgrading the goalie position - because the other options (that are known) aren't top 10 goalies/aren't as good as Kuemper. So you'd sooner go with a Rittich-level goalie to compliment Rittich? I don't get it. That's not good enough.

[JTech780]

It sounds like Minnesota is looking for forwards and centers in particular. Backlund for Dumba straight across. The other deal I was thinking of is Gaudreau for Dumba and a young player like Greenway, Kunin, Eriksson Ek or Addison.