Why though? Shouldn't we want the best players to be in the rafters?
I don't get why people make a jersey retirement a personality thing. As a fan I think it's embarrassing that the best players are not in the rafters.
Because it's not just a sort of games played and points. These are people. You don't retire average or depth players that are good humans, but similarly many don't honour great players that have done questionable things.
I'm not against Fleury getting retired personally, but I certainly understand the thinking given his tirade in 2009, which honestly ... was his chance. That whole comeback attempt basically repaired the whole relationship until ... it didn't.
But Lanny has the stats and he's got the human aspect down. That gets you in line first every time.
I'm of the mind that HOF inductions should be almost entirely, if not completely, performance based. I want to be able to go to those places and see the best players - even if they were horrible people.
In contrast, jersey retirements should consider factors outside of their performance on the ice. How did they represent the team and community during and after their career.
In some cases that's why you have both:
- Player in the hall, who don't have their jerseys retired
- Players with jerseys retired, not in the hall
There is overlap to be sure. But I view them as distinct things that merit different considerations.
Last edited by Jiri Hrdina; 06-23-2020 at 03:06 PM.
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Why though? Shouldn't we want the best players to be in the rafters?
I don't get why people make a jersey retirement a personality thing. As a fan I think it's embarrassing that the best players are not in the rafters.
Because number retirement is statement by the organization about what type of player and person they believe best represents the team and its involvement in the community. There is more to that than what is done on the ice.
Fleury was a very good hockey player, no doubt. Put up some big numbers on some bad teams, but he was a crappy team mate and a poor representative of his team. Fleury was not well liked because of his ego. Calgary put up with him because he a big fish in a very small pond. Once Theo moved on you quickly saw how well received he was by his teams and their fans. Ask Colorado fans what they thought of Fleury? Or Ranger fans. Or Blackhawk fans. A very talented player, but not someone they could "cheer" for. Character matters.
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Because it's not just a sort of games played and points. These are people. You don't retire average or depth players that are good humans, but similarly many don't honour great players that have done questionable things.
I'm not against Fleury getting retired personally, but I certainly understand the thinking given his tirade in 2009, which honestly ... was his chance. That whole comeback attempt basically repaired the whole relationship until ... it didn't.
But Lanny has the stats and he's got the human aspect down. That gets you in line first every time.
Off the top of my head.. Patrick Roy and Chris Pronger are two names that have done questionable things and still got/getting their numbers retired. Theo's comments are a far cry from either of those two examples. I just think at this stage the organization looks petty more so than anything.
The organization can blackball his number going into the rafters but players live by a different code and that is why nobody has or ever will wear 14 again as a Flame. To me the number is already retired regardless of what the organization does.
This is a pretty lame reason to not retire a fan favorite and former franchise scoring leader. I like that Fleury had that competitive nature, that he felt he was better than Conroy (and he's entitled to that opinion). I wish more Flames players today had that fire.
You're right he can have what ever opinion he wants... but he was wrong and just because he had an opinion doesn't mean he had to whine and bitch about it in the media.
He was slow as balls that preseason and was in no way an NHL caliber player. Nor was he a suitable replacement for Conroy who he compared himself to. And calling the flames management and people that run hockey stupid...
Quote:
Wow, what a year! At this time last year, I was 45 pounds overweight and thinking about making a comeback. HAHAHAHA! Anyway, we put our nose to the grindstone and boy did we make a comeback. At one hundred and eighty pounds, I finished 11th out of 56 guys at camp in the fitness test and scored a historic shootout goal in an exhibition game after being out of hockey for six years. What does that say about the talent level in the NHL? 4 points and a plus 4 rating in four exhibition games and I get cut. What a joke! Craig Conroy goes the first 37 games of the season with zero goals. I wonder how many I would have had. Even with all the stupid people that run the game of hockey, it’s still a great game. Go figure. Anyway, then the book comes out and starts flying off the shelves. The truth will set you free! 100,000 copies and counting. Thank you for all your support.
Yea, like I said the Flames aren't retiring his jersey.
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The other thing is that the Flames and Fleury had agreed that if he was to make the team, it would be in a top 6 role.
He wasn't that. So he didn't.
Then he moved the goal posts by suggesting he should have beaten someone out for a 4th line role and then slammed the organization of not doing that.
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I look at that quote and I don’t see anything particularly egregious, just a guy who needs to maintain a healthy ego in the face of what was clearly the end of his career. Now I’m no psychologist, but knowing his history with sex abuse and how that destroys self esteem, and how it led to his substance abuse, I can easily forgive those comments if I’m a hockey writer or executive for the Flames.
Theo’s problems were, and have always been, way overblown. HOF and jersey retirement for me.
__________________
"You know, that's kinda why I came here, to show that I don't suck that much" ~ Devin Cooley, Professional Goaltender
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I love how he calls his exhibition shootout goal "historic", as if there is such a thing. A little narcissistic, there Theo.....
Like I said before, Theo ain't the best guy on the planet, but he was a hell of a hockey player. The best player in history stood up for him so he could play in the 2002 Olympics, and they won gold-that says something....
I think the other thing with Fleury is that he’s a risk to the image of the team still right now.
Based on some of his twitter posts / political stances it feels like he’s always a second away from doing or saying something controversial again.
Easier for the team (and the NHL in general) just to stay away from that for the time being.
For his results on the ice especially considering what he overcame from his youth he deserves it, but I also kind of get why the organization and league seem to keep an arms length away from him.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 06-23-2020 at 06:34 PM.
The organization can blackball his number going into the rafters but players live by a different code and that is why nobody has or ever will wear 14 again as a Flame. To me the number is already retired regardless of what the organization does.
You're right he can have what ever opinion he wants... but he was wrong and just because he had an opinion doesn't mean he had to whine and bitch about it in the media.
He was slow as balls that preseason and was in no way an NHL caliber player. Nor was he a suitable replacement for Conroy who he compared himself to. And calling the flames management and people that run hockey stupid...
Yea, like I said the Flames aren't retiring his jersey.
Everything he said there was true. He should not have took that jab at Conroy but the organization took a dump on his comeback. This organization has made plenty of mistakes, cutting Fleury was one of them. If they don't retire his jersey it doesn't matter, the players have and that means more imo.
The other thing is that the Flames and Fleury had agreed that if he was to make the team, it would be in a top 6 role.
He wasn't that. So he didn't.
Then he moved the goal posts by suggesting he should have beaten someone out for a 4th line role and then slammed the organization of not doing that.
Do you have a source for this? First I have ever heard this.
The organization can blackball his number going into the rafters but players live by a different code and that is why nobody has or ever will wear 14 again as a Flame. To me the number is already retired regardless of what the organization does.
BINGO
I’m 30 and he was the unanimous favourite among kids my age growing up. We had nobody else to cheer for. I didn’t even know about his struggles until well after he retired, my parents weren’t going to tell me my hero was an addict.
Once you boomers are gone we can get his name & number in the rafters
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Everything he said there was true. He should not have took that jab at Conroy but the organization took a dump on his comeback. This organization has made plenty of mistakes, cutting Fleury was one of them. If they don't retire his jersey it doesn't matter, the players have and that means more imo.
The organization is the ONLY reason he had a comeback and only reason he currently has a pension and benefits as a retired player. They owed him zero. I say this all the time but we don’t know anywhere near the stress and consternation he caused in his time here behind the scenes from 89 to 99, with ownership, players, management and coaches on a professional and personal level. The Flames kept him on as straight a path as they could off the ice, and kept his issues out of the public eye, as evidenced of what happened once he was outside of the Flames control.
And then the Flames bent over backwards to get him reinstated with the league so that he could then be eligible for a NHL pension and benefits in retirement. The exhibition gig at the same time was even more of a sideshow/parting gift/favour for him to go out on good terms...and months later he again acts entitled and selfish and craps all over the club for that opportunity not turning out the way he expected.
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