Theoren Fleury Deserves to be in the HHOF - Frank Seravalli

[Dion]

I'm playing golf with Theoren Fleury and his dad Wally on Friday morning @ Cottonwood. I might slip in the question about the HHOF and see what he says.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Dion

I'm playing golf with Theoren Fleury and his dad Wally on Friday morning @ Cottonwood. I might slip in the question about the HHOF and see what he says.

Do yourself a favor and don't....If you want a more interesting afternoon ask him if he has any good golf stories from his playing days where a day at the links got a bit out of hand.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by New Era

That does not mean he deserves to have his number retired or honored by the team. To have that honor it requires that the individual was a good representative of the team and put the community above himself. It is about the "C" on the chest being bigger than the player, even when you are one of the top players in the game and the team's history. Ego is to be checked at the door. You must be a good representative of the Flames and of the City of Calgary. For all those reasons Fleury does not deserve to have his number retired or honored by the Calgary Flames. He was give two chances with by this team, a second when no one wanted anything to do with him, and he still shat all over the organization. That leads to a hard no because Fleury is not the type of person you want your players to emulate and follow their example. Therein lays the differentiation on the stances.

Yes to the HHOF, because of his story, but no to jersey retirement, because of his actions toward the team.

Because we've had great players who put team before themselves:
- Doug Gilmour walks out on the team because he wants to get paid
- Joe Nieuwendyk holds out and demands a trade so he can get paid
- Al MacInnis signs an offer sheet so he can get paid


Just saying they are not all selfless angels.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Do yourself a favor and don't....If you want a more interesting afternoon ask him if he has any good golf stories from his playing days where a day at the links got a bit out of hand.

TBQH I do agree and further to that point it might be a sore spot with Theo. My biggest problem will be keeping up to the both of them as they are both very good golfers.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Because we've had great players who put team before themselves:
- Doug Gilmour walks out on the team because he wants to get paid
- Joe Nieuwendyk holds out and demands a trade so he can get paid
- Al MacInnis signs an offer sheet so he can get paid


Just saying they are not all selfless angels.

I get your point. The business aspect is part of the game and Fleury did the same to chase bigger money and better teams. The big question is, did they trash the team after they left? No. Also, none of those numbers were retired.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

He was the best player in the NHL for chunks of the late 90s. If the goal of society is to stop demonizing people with addictions and to stop the stigma of mental health, Theo should not be punished for that, rather rewarded for his skill and achievements at the game of hockey.

Wow, excellent post. I always struggle to respond to the Fluery debates in the never ending "older fans who hates him" vs "younger fans who like him" threads, but this sums it up succinctly.

[GreenLantern2814]

If you want to make an argument about why 14 isn’t retired, I’ll listen to it.

No justification to keep him out of the Hall. He’s got the numbers, he’s got the accolades, he belongs.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Fleury outplayed the fourth and most of the third lines in the preseason. It wasn't the best team in the league at that point, and he wasn't looking for top line duty.

I had tickets to every pre-season game that year, and I vehemently disagree. Theo still had the hands, but he had nothing else-he had become horribly slow, and was absolutely GASSED when he got off the ice (he was taking extra short shifts, not even staying out for full shifts with his line mates). I really wanted the fairy tale to come true like everyone else, but unfortunately, it just wasn't meant to happen.

[FireGilbert]

I loved Fleury as a player. I still remember the game where his jersey was bloodied and he was forced off the ice only to come back in a blank #74 jersey (I think). I also attended his hockey school at the Family Leisure Centre. At most summer hockey schools you'd get the occasional NHLer making an appearance but here Fleury was on the ice all day everyday working with the kids. As a 12 year old this was the coolest thing ever.

Yeah he definitely belongs in the Hall. On the surface maybe he is on the bubble but when you consider the full context of his personal demons Fleury has to be inducted. I understand the PR issues though and am wondering if the induction will need to wait until Theo shows he can be trusted in a public forum or, sadly, he passes away.

I think the same way about the jersey retirement. It's obvious 14 has already been de facto retired but the Flames need to wait until the ceremony can be done without the PR hassle.

[dammage79]

HoF: Yes
Jersey Retirement: Yes (informally already is)
Literally nobody else is ahead of Fleury now to wait for a jersey number retirement. The man was this team before Iggy came.
Time to recognize that.

So he is a bit of a jerk. So what, he's earned that right in my estimation.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Bull####. In the late 90s and early 00s he was in the conversation for the best. If not for two seasons cut short by his issues, he would have been at or near the top in scoring and likely in the conversation for individual awards.

So to summarize for you:


Tl;Dr I think the world should be different than it is, but my opinion doesn't matter.

In the late 90s and early 2000s there are players who I would rank as being consistently better than Fleury, mind you they are all in the Hall of Fame (or will be). Lemieux, Jagr, Forsberg, Sakic, Yzerman, and Fedorov.
Then you have a bunch of great players some of whom will be in the hall and some who won't. Modano, Naslund, Selanne, Kariya, Sundin, Elias, Bure, Yashin, Kovalev, Weight, Nolan, Recchi, Bondra, Oates, Leclair, and Tkachuk among others. That is the group that Fleury fits into.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

In the late 90s and early 2000s there are players who I would rank as being consistently better than Fleury, mind you they are all in the Hall of Fame (or will be). Lemieux, Jagr, Forsberg, Sakic, Yzerman, and Fedorov.
Then you have a bunch of great players some of whom will be in the hall and some who won't. Modano, Naslund, Selanne, Kariya, Sundin, Elias, Bure, Yashin, Kovalev, Weight, Nolan, Recchi, Bondra, Oates, Leclair, and Tkachuk among others. That is the group that Fleury fits into.

don't totally hate/dispute the list


guess of your 2nd tier ( I assume Shanahan, Forsberg, and Lindros fit in here somewhere?)

In: Modano, Selanne, Kariya, Sundin, Bure, Recchi, Oates


Currently out: Naslund, Elias, Yashin, Kovalev, Weight, Nolan, Bondra, Leclair, Tkachuk


of these- Naslund, Yashin, Nolan, Bondra, Leclair all ended up with less than 900 points- I don't think any of them have enough intangibles to make up that difference (although Naslund at peak was a great player)


of these I imagine we will eventually see several (all possibly not all) of Elias, Tkachuk, Kovalev, go in (in roughly that order)...Weight. less sure


2 other names from the era to ponder: Brindamour, Turgeon (the latter doesn't have alot going for him other than alot of points!)

[TheScorpion]

Rod the Bod is probably in line with Fleury. They should both be in.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by dammage79

HoF: Yes
Jersey Retirement: Yes (informally already is)
Literally nobody else is ahead of Fleury now to wait for a jersey number retirement. The man was this team before Iggy came.
Time to recognize that.

So he is a bit of a jerk. So what, he's earned that right in my estimation.

I think Kiprusoff has a better chance of jersey retirement than Fleury. The 2nd best goalie in franchise history has his number retired, why not the best?

[Sandman]

I remember in the early nineties, I got Fleury's and Stern's autographs at a SportChek signing event. Stern could not have been nicer-took time to talk to everybody, took pictures, joked with the kids,etc. Fleury told the security guard to tell everyone not to take pics, and only get the mug and glossy photo they provided signed-he would not sign any other cards or paraphernalia. Now, I get it-it's hard for a superstar hockey player to exist in public, especially in a place like Calgary, but he was totally not in to being there. That was a huge letdown to me, and it changed my mind about Theo the person.

Theo the player was another story. He was the most entertaining player we've ever had here-he had all the grit and feistiness you'd want, plus amazing skill and finesse. He was as clutch as hell too. Before Iggy, he WAS the franchise. I think he should be in the Hall, and have his number retired here, and this is coming from someone who dislikes the guy.

[ComixZone]

*Deleted

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by codynw

I think Kiprusoff has a better chance of jersey retirement than Fleury. The 2nd best goalie in franchise history has his number retired, why not the best?

Fleury before Kipper. Flames fans have too much of a what have you done for me lately and did you do it my way because if you didn't I don't like you...bias.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The challenge with Kipper will be getting him to agree including to take part

[TheScorpion]

What I've remembered hearing re: Kipper is that the Flames are fully on board. As soon as the scheduling can all be worked out and Kipper is willing/in town, it's happening. Now who knows when that will happen...

Tbh they probably wanted to do Iginla first. Now, that one's out of the way.

[getbak]

Didn't Kipper just randomly show up at a game earlier this season (or last season ... who knows what year it is anymore)?

I'm sure it wasn't random, but it was completely without fanfare.