View Poll Results: What do you think of the trade after a week of getting your head around it?
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Love it, think Lucic is an upgrade
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109 |
16.80% |
Like it, clears some cap space even if Lucic is no better
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197 |
30.35% |
Indifferent, both teams getting a failed project
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187 |
28.81% |
Dislike it, Neal needed another year to bounce back
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107 |
16.49% |
Hate it, Neal will be better in Edmonton
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49 |
7.55% |
10-10-2019, 08:34 AM
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#2961
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
I wasn't talking about he cap hit specifically.
The Flames saved many millions of actual dollars in this deal. It likely allowed them to buy out Stone.
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That makes no sense. The dollar savings is the same as the cap hit savings - $500k per year. That's going to total $2 million. And you had better hope the NHL and NHLPA do manage to make a deal without a lockout, because if not, we will actually end up paying more in actual dollars than if we hadn't made the deal.
And no, this trade had nothing to do with buying out Stone. Stone was bought out because we (at the time) felt he had no role, and needed to clear that ~$2 million in cap space. That was going to happen with or without the Neal-Lucic trade.
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10-10-2019, 08:39 AM
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#2962
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Saskatoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
That makes no sense. The dollar savings is the same as the cap hit savings - $500k per year. That's going to total $2 million. And you had better hope the NHL and NHLPA do manage to make a deal without a lockout, because if not, we will actually end up paying more in actual dollars than if we hadn't made the deal.
And no, this trade had nothing to do with buying out Stone. Stone was bought out because we (at the time) felt he had no role, and needed to clear that ~$2 million in cap space. That was going to happen with or without the Neal-Lucic trade.
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The Flames are paying Lucic $15mil for 4 years of service. How is that not saving money??
Check that they’re paying less. I forgot about the salary retention. Definitely saving money.
Last edited by flamesgod; 10-10-2019 at 08:41 AM.
Reason: Wrong info
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10-10-2019, 08:42 AM
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#2963
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary
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Whatever. Usually, whenever something even remotely positive happens for the Oilers and their fans, they and the media hype the crap out it just so they can have a big meltdown later on when it fails spectacularly. So I'm looking forward to the handwringing in game 50 when Neal's still sitting at 9 goals total for the year.
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10-10-2019, 08:42 AM
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#2964
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First round-bust
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
He was also absurdly unlucky at scoring with us. So that goes both ways.
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I must say I vehemently disagree. How many times did you watch Neal and honestly say, "man he came so close to scoring there"?
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco
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10-10-2019, 08:48 AM
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#2966
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
That makes no sense. The dollar savings is the same as the cap hit savings - $500k per year. That's going to total $2 million. And you had better hope the NHL and NHLPA do manage to make a deal without a lockout, because if not, we will actually end up paying more in actual dollars than if we hadn't made the deal.
And no, this trade had nothing to do with buying out Stone. Stone was bought out because we (at the time) felt he had no role, and needed to clear that ~$2 million in cap space. That was going to happen with or without the Neal-Lucic trade.
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The dollar saving was much more than the cap hit because Lucic already had way more of his contract already paid by way of bonus and front loading of the contract.
I believe the actual cash savings was in the neighbourhood of $8,000,000., but I am going from memory.
Don't assume that the Flames owners will simply throw money after every UFA contract mistake. The extra money allows much more flexibility to buy out contracts.
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10-10-2019, 08:59 AM
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#2967
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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"The Flexibility to Buy Out Contracts"
Taking on a massive salary liability in order to...buy out other, lesser salary liabilities.
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10-10-2019, 09:02 AM
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#2968
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamesgod
The Flames are paying Lucic $15mil for 4 years of service. How is that not saving money??
Check that they’re paying less. I forgot about the salary retention. Definitely saving money.
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Yeah, that's true enough. I forgot for a moment how ridiculously front-loaded that deal was.
But no, it had nothing at all to do with the Stone buy-out. That was was about freeing cap space and had to happen anyway.
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10-10-2019, 09:02 AM
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#2969
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Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
I must say I vehemently disagree. How many times did you watch Neal and honestly say, "man he came so close to scoring there"?
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Are we counting times he blew the zone without team possession?
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10-10-2019, 09:05 AM
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#2970
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Grew up in Calgary now living in USA
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7
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
I must say I vehemently disagree. How many times did you watch Neal and honestly say, "man he came so close to scoring there"?
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Agreed! There is no excuse .He pretty much mailed it in all year. A lot of guys on the team worked really hard to make the playoffs while Neal pretty much put himself ahead of the team. He came to camp out of shape but the bottom line is he got paid to do his job and he didn't do it. Lots of guys make the playoffs every year and don't use the same excuse Neal used. Him dragging his attitude to the playoffs was ian insult to his teammates that worked hard to get there. I am not surprised he is scoring for the oilers, it just confirms he in fact mailed it in.
Brad on the other hand gave Neal and Brouwer too much money in term. He should have given the money but shorter term kind of a show me contract. If he had done that we wouldn't have had to trade for Lucic, and would have had more cap room .
Last edited by DazzlinDino; 10-10-2019 at 09:09 AM.
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10-10-2019, 09:07 AM
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#2971
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
There is pretty much uniform support for Brad Treliving getting extended a year after he signed a player that was so obviously a one dimensional player and had no fit with his team.
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It's almost like Treliving has done more than one thing in his tenure.
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10-10-2019, 09:08 AM
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#2972
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion
I must say I vehemently disagree. How many times did you watch Neal and honestly say, "man he came so close to scoring there"?
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His shooting percentage with us was less than half his career norms. You can admit that Neal both played like crap AND had horrible luck when he did get his chances. They aren't mutually exclusive.
There was no reason to think he would consistently become a 5% shooter.
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10-10-2019, 09:11 AM
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#2973
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
I don't think so. It's not just Neal but the effect he has on his linemates. McDavid turned a replacement level player in Chiasson into a 20+ goal forward so you replace Chaisson with a guy like Neal that has pedigree as a goal scorer then it makes life easier for McDavid, RNH, or Draisaitl. I personally don't believe the Flames sniff 100 points if they don't make the acquisition of Lindholm last season as he played a key role in the career seasons of Monahan and Gaudreau.
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Sidney Crosby and Mark Stone on two different sites led the league in WAR last year with numbers between 5.5 and 7
So that's 11 to 14 points and they're at the top.
James Neal is not worth an additional 15 points in the standings.
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10-10-2019, 09:16 AM
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#2974
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DazzlinDino
Agreed! There is no excuse .He pretty much mailed it in all year. A lot of guys on the team worked really hard to make the playoffs while Neal pretty much put himself ahead of the team. He came to camp out of shape but the bottom line is he got paid to do his job and he didn't do it. Lots of guys make the playoffs every year and don't use the same excuse Neal used. Him dragging his attitude to the playoffs was ian insult to his teammatesmates that worked hard to get there. I am not surprised he is scoring for the oilers, it just confirms he in fact mailed it in...
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Right, but I think this actually helps to illustrate what Resolute was getting at. Neal’s astonishingly poor performance last year was—at least partially—due to correctable factors. It sounds like he is in much better shape now, and I suspect the experience of last year was also a motivating factor for Neal, at least in the early-going. He is almost certain to see an improvement on his 5% SP from last year based on these changes alone.
I think Neal will be a better player this year—how could he possibly not be? But I also think the ceiling for him is fairly low—especially for a top six forward playing tonnes of powerplay mins.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by Textcritic; 10-10-2019 at 09:47 AM.
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10-10-2019, 09:18 AM
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#2975
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Sidney Crosby and Mark Stone on two different sites led the league in WAR last year with numbers between 5.5 and 7
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lolcry
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10-10-2019, 09:26 AM
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#2976
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
Of course it matters. The fact is that the top unit WAS among the best in the NHL. The Flames were the ONLY team in the entire League with all five players in the top-50 of powerplay production. I would say that was definitely above tinkering, especially to accommodate a disgruntled and disinterested player who was doing nothing else to contribute.
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Just scraped some data and assigned each team a group of five in production as the top unit for simplicity.
Calgary's top 5 finished 6th in the league. (big four forwards and Giordano).
Tampa, Florida, Boston, Colorado, Washington and Pittsburgh ahead.
So yeah there was simply no room for Neal and the numbers prove that out effectively.
The Flames second unit (every other player) finished 22nd.
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10-10-2019, 09:41 AM
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#2977
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw
For an academic, research in not your strongest point
took me less than a minute link
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Man you soiled yourself there.
That's not the top unit, it's the entirety of each team.
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10-10-2019, 09:44 AM
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#2978
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Section 120
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I still believe Neal is garbage despite the fact he already has 6 goals. 5 of them are on the PP and he's playing with Connor McDavid. Alex Chiasson even put up 20+ on McDavid's line. It's not that Neal has bounced back. McDavid is just that good.
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10-10-2019, 09:54 AM
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#2979
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
lolcry
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What's your problem now? Why can't you expand on an issue if you have one? The one word take make you look small.
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10-10-2019, 09:57 AM
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#2980
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
What's your problem now? Why can't you expand on an issue if you have one? The one word take make you look small.
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Best player in the league was available at the deadline in a season where Calgary were strong cup contenders with a gaping hole on right wing which just happens to be the position the best player in the world played.
Very Laugh/Cry emotions.
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