07-16-2019, 12:58 PM
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#2841
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Sunshine list: Nearly 30 per cent of city workforce makes more than $100,000
Keep in mind this is only salary and doesn't include all benefits including pensions (some employees receive 3 pensions).
https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...2r_Cl38Yhl99Rc
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07-16-2019, 01:05 PM
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#2842
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Posted the 6 millionth post!
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Time for a witch hunt! Burn 'em at the stake! Garnish their wages! Silly Hall is CRAZY!
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07-16-2019, 01:08 PM
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#2843
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Make the rich pay their fair share! If business can't survive that's their own problem! I'm entitled to my entitlements!
Gee that was useful.
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07-16-2019, 01:09 PM
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#2844
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Posted the 6 millionth post!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_eoj
Make the rich pay their fair share! If business can't survive that's their own problem! I'm entitled to my entitlements!
Gee that was useful.
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Kill off ALL the PENSIONS! Everywhere!!
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07-16-2019, 02:42 PM
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#2845
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_eoj
Make the rich pay their fair share! If business can't survive that's their own problem! I'm entitled to my entitlements!
Gee that was useful.
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Dont feed the trolls. Muta will be along shortly to thank his posts in the meantime.
Now that the grownups can talk....
Public compensation is very high and this doesnt come as a surprise, the fact is that in a cash crunched economy these wages at the very least have to stagnate.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something. - The Dread Pirate Roberts
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07-16-2019, 03:03 PM
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#2846
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Posted the 6 millionth post!
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https://www.calgary.ca/CA/cmo/Docume...osure_list.pdf
Here's the list of jobs with pay ranges for all to see. The City's description (although basic in nature) says they do their research when assigning pay ranges for each of these jobs. Perhaps Bunk or someone else can weigh in on what these factors include.
I worked one of these jobs at the City there about 10 years ago. The base band for that job has basically not moved according to this document. I would say for at least that position and likely others, they're getting better value out of them now because inflation and cost-of-living hasn't been adjusted.
For those up in arms because it sounds like you're paying more for lazy freeloading public employees, feel free to post averages for other similar municipal jurisdictions, as well as private sector equivalents in Calgary. Would be interesting to see for sure.
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07-16-2019, 04:09 PM
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#2847
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary
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Is $100k still considered a lot of money? I'd think that type of salary affords you a comfortable lifestyle, but I would stop short of pretending it's an outrageous salary these days. This isn't 1998.
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07-16-2019, 04:13 PM
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#2848
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Franchise Player
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The average in Alberta is like 55k so yes. 100k is a lot. And yes city employees are paid a lot. We still don't know how much but likely much more than the average.
What's with the chief of police making 350k a year? That seems excessive.
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07-16-2019, 04:15 PM
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#2849
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Q_
Is $100k still considered a lot of money? I'd think that type of salary affords you a comfortable lifestyle, but I would stop short of pretending it's an outrageous salary these days. This isn't 1998.
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I agree. I make just a bit less than that and while I'm certainly comfortable I've hardly got boatloads of spare cash
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07-16-2019, 04:28 PM
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#2850
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Q_
Is $100k still considered a lot of money? I'd think that type of salary affords you a comfortable lifestyle, but I would stop short of pretending it's an outrageous salary these days. This isn't 1998.
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Most people believe that there was some sort of compromise between public employment and private employment.
Traditionally, you would expect to be paid somewhat less in a public role in exchange for better pension and benefits, as well as better job security.
Instead what has happened is that public sector employees are now paid more salary than private counterparts doing similar work, they have MUCH better pensions and benefits, and also much higher job security.
Something has to change as it simply isn't sustainable.
And yes, 100K is much higher than the average wage is Alberta.
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07-16-2019, 04:44 PM
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#2851
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Q_
Is $100k still considered a lot of money? I'd think that type of salary affords you a comfortable lifestyle, but I would stop short of pretending it's an outrageous salary these days. This isn't 1998.
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You're missing the point. Its not that $100K makes you the Monopoly Man lighting your cigars with Hundos and using 50s as coasters for your top-shelf cognac.
Look at the jobs.
Auto Mechanic (2) - ~$100K
Firefighter Level 1 - $99,200
Safety Officer - $101K
Interior Designer - $86K
Yeah, these add up and wind up costing a lot of money.
Each individual job isnt in itself outrageous or anything, but nor are these people paupers in dire need of critical pay increases.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something. - The Dread Pirate Roberts
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07-16-2019, 05:30 PM
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#2852
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THE Chuck Storm
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!
The average in Alberta is like 55k so yes. 100k is a lot. And yes city employees are paid a lot. We still don't know how much but likely much more than the average.
What's with the chief of police making 350k a year? That seems excessive.
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National average Chief of Police salary is $267,000. Calgary is the 3rd largest metro population in the country.
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07-16-2019, 05:44 PM
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#2853
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
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For what it may or may not be worth, I used to work for the city and left because I felt I didn't get paid enough, and a similar position in the private sector paid more + similar benefits.
The biggest difference is definitely lifestyle though. With the city I worked 38 hours a week. Current job I work between 60 to 84 and spend 80% of my time away from home. Both jobs paid hourly
Last edited by btimbit; 07-16-2019 at 05:48 PM.
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07-16-2019, 07:47 PM
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#2854
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!
...
What's with the chief of police making 350k a year? That seems excessive.
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A quick google tells me CPS has ~3,200 members and an operating budget of ~$400mm...
IMO, someone in charge of an organization of that size is underpaid at $350k / year.
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07-16-2019, 10:40 PM
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#2855
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_eoj
Most people believe that there was some sort of compromise between public employment and private employment.
Traditionally, you would expect to be paid somewhat less in a public role in exchange for better pension and benefits, as well as better job security.
Instead what has happened is that public sector employees are now paid more salary than private counterparts doing similar work, they have MUCH better pensions and benefits, and also much higher job security.
Something has to change as it simply isn't sustainable.
And yes, 100K is much higher than the average wage is Alberta.
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I used to work for The City and this myth of public sector compensation being "so much better" than private sector compensation is unwarranted. It not bad, but it's not the pot of gold that make it out to be. Some reality about The City's compensation:
- Public sector employees don't get bonuses or share units, and non-union salaries have been more or less frozen since 2016.
- Employees contribute somewhere around 9-11% of their salary to the pension, which is a mandatory deduction on your paycheque and increases beyond that once your salary reaches a certain level. It's not a free pension, and it's also only worthwhile if you stick around for a long time. For example, 20 years of service earning $105k a year will net you approximately $3750 a month once you retire, +/- 30% for each 10 year interval.
- The benefits package is not bad, but there's a very small flex account and if I recall correctly, there's no 100% coverage options like many private sector offerings.
- Job security... sure. The City has good job security as long as you're not "limited term". Usually in times like this, the city's limited term employees have their terms run out or are ended early similar to what happens to contract staff in the private sector.
- Work-life balance depends on the business unit and team. Many people coast by on 35 hour work weeks, but there are also many City employees that do unpaid overtime and put in a solid effort to get the job done.
- The union mandated vacation allotment is two weeks for the first year or two and then three weeks until year eight. Easily the worst vacation policy that I've encountered in my career.
- City Council are a bunch of imbeciles with big egos, and there is a lot of pandering by city administration to their every whim... that's worse than anything you'll encounter in the private sector.
If you were a white-collar professional with a degree and a designation, such as a senior business analyst or "Business Strategist", any reputable company in Calgary will beat The City's $77-117k salary band and total compensation.
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07-17-2019, 01:37 AM
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#2856
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Franchise Player
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Expense accounts and other perks also tend to be substantially less in the public sector (at least in bull times). It may not seem like a big thing, but the boss taking the team out for dinner/drinks to celebrate an achievement can go a long way in terms of workplace morale...same with getting the odd set of un-needed Flames tix, etc.
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07-17-2019, 07:26 AM
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#2857
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Q_
Is $100k still considered a lot of money? I'd think that type of salary affords you a comfortable lifestyle, but I would stop short of pretending it's an outrageous salary these days. This isn't 1998.
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sure you're not getting rich, but for many of us, YES! it is a lot of money.
that being said, many of those city salaries don't seem out of line.
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07-17-2019, 08:42 AM
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#2858
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by you&me
A quick google tells me CPS has ~3,200 members and an operating budget of ~$400mm...
IMO, someone in charge of an organization of that size is underpaid at $350k / year.
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Well, except the premier, the mayor and every other premier, mayor, prime minister, fire chief, any elected official anywhere doesn't make nearly that much. So it seems a little excessive to me. It likely reflects the inflated wages of the lower ranks on up.
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07-17-2019, 09:00 AM
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#2859
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogerz
I used to work for The City and this myth of public sector compensation being "so much better" than private sector compensation is unwarranted. It not bad, but it's not the pot of gold that make it out to be. Some reality about The City's compensation:
- Public sector employees don't get bonuses or share units, and non-union salaries have been more or less frozen since 2016.
- Employees contribute somewhere around 9-11% of their salary to the pension, which is a mandatory deduction on your paycheque and increases beyond that once your salary reaches a certain level. It's not a free pension, and it's also only worthwhile if you stick around for a long time. For example, 20 years of service earning $105k a year will net you approximately $3750 a month once you retire, +/- 30% for each 10 year interval.
- The benefits package is not bad, but there's a very small flex account and if I recall correctly, there's no 100% coverage options like many private sector offerings.
- Job security... sure. The City has good job security as long as you're not "limited term". Usually in times like this, the city's limited term employees have their terms run out or are ended early similar to what happens to contract staff in the private sector.
- Work-life balance depends on the business unit and team. Many people coast by on 35 hour work weeks, but there are also many City employees that do unpaid overtime and put in a solid effort to get the job done.
- The union mandated vacation allotment is two weeks for the first year or two and then three weeks until year eight. Easily the worst vacation policy that I've encountered in my career.
- City Council are a bunch of imbeciles with big egos, and there is a lot of pandering by city administration to their every whim... that's worse than anything you'll encounter in the private sector.
If you were a white-collar professional with a degree and a designation, such as a senior business analyst or "Business Strategist", any reputable company in Calgary will beat The City's $77-117k salary band and total compensation.
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That's an incredible pension. Contribute for only 20 years at 11% of your salary and get $3750 (presumably inflation adjusted)/month for life? Dude, do the math.
Most places by default have no flex account. No one provides 100% coverage for anything anymore. Sure, if you want to pay $400/month for your benefits...
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07-17-2019, 09:12 AM
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#2860
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
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Let's do the math...
$105K @ 11% = $962.50 per month.
Future value @ 6% annum over 20 years...
~$444714
Let's drawn that down...
Take out $3750/month... RoR of 2% on the remaining principal.
You have 11 years before all the money is gone.
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