09-16-2018, 11:31 AM
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#21
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
Good article.
Only thing I'd like to see in addition is the line combinations, as it's often one of the most difficult things to find afterwards.
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First two periods ...
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Neal
Frolik - Ryan - Czarnik
Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway
Last period
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Ryan - Neal
Frolik - Backlund - Czarnik
Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway
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09-16-2018, 11:47 AM
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#22
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
First two periods ...
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Neal
Frolik - Ryan - Czarnik
Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway
Last period
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Ryan - Neal
Frolik - Backlund - Czarnik
Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway
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Out of thanks but thanks
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09-16-2018, 03:48 PM
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#24
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Struch
Perhaps in time we'll see the more offensive minded Czarnik join the top six and have the more defensive minded Lindholm added to the bottom six?
Gaudreau - Monahan - Czarnik
Tkachuk - Ryan - Neal
Dubé, - Backlund - Lindholm
Bennett - Jankowski - Frolik
Spare/Call-ups
Lazar/Hathaway,
Mangiapane/Foo
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I doubt it, because I think Treliving and Peters want to build scoring depth all the way through the top nine. The second and third lines should be theoretically interchangeable.
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09-16-2018, 03:54 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic
I doubt it, because I think Treliving and Peters want to build scoring depth all the way through the top nine. The second and third lines should be theoretically interchangeable.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Yes, I think it might be better to consider "a middle six" now, rather than the old "top six" and "bottom six". Frames the discussion more accurately with today's game.
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09-16-2018, 05:59 PM
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#26
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psyang
One thing I noticed was a major reduction in D-to-D passes once we controlled the puck. It seemed like the first option for the D was to the forwards, and that seemed to really accentuate our speed, and put us in attack mode.
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I noticed this too and it seemed like we were entering the opponents zone several seconds faster upon the D retrieving the puck than last season. The Boston D had to hustle back because of this to keep up with the play moving north in a hurry and a number of good plays were made off the rush that were dangerous. Czarnik looks to be especially good at creating off the rush.
Also was going to say the 2nd pairing looked quiet and responsible and I'm already more comfortable with Hanifin on the left side as opposed to Brodie there. On the other hand Gio and being on the right side looks to have settled Brodies game right back down again. Looks more comfortable and decisive. Even taking more opportunities offensively as well.
Last edited by djsFlames; 09-16-2018 at 06:03 PM.
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09-17-2018, 03:26 AM
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#27
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammage79
Player thoughts.
Lindholm: In position the whole time. Strong down low afyer he got his feet under him. Has a Monahan level of anticipating where he needs to be to get a good shot off. His cerebrap game doesnt scream at you through flash but his on ice awareness is going to elevate any line he is on. Fantastic down low on the lwft side on the PP. If Johnny runs the left point Lindholm will be LW.
Hamonic: looks faster. Skated much better than he did last year. Also led a lot of rushes out of the Flames end. Eye test was better than 90% of his play last year.
Czarnik: Fast as heck. Smart player and has a nose for the net. Drives hard and can make some slick passes. Dynamic and a surprise he is signed so cheap.
Brodano: honestly, 1 preseason game in and it looks lile they havent missed a beat. Good sign. I donr know how they got it into Bordies head but his indecisivenesss disappeared. Looked great playimg the uptempo quick strike style theyre going for this year. Gio is gio, does his thing and is a rock.
Good omen for the top pairing.
Hanifin: Maybe the best skater out there? Also seemed to be playing a bit reserved or his game is refined. Was strong in the Flames end.
Monahan: dont think ive seen hom ever try one timers. Fun to see. Looked faster put there as well.
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I suspect Hamonic didn’t feel the same requirement to be the stay at home guy that he did last year.
Overall I think the Flames were more Vegas like in the way they turned the puck up ice as quickly as possible, rather than waiting for everyone to be “set”. It made them seem a lot faster.
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09-17-2018, 10:25 AM
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#28
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#1 Goaltender
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Ok...so of the quadfecta, we've seen:
- continued good possession of GG era
- faster transitions
- stonger backcheck
- harder forecheck
Sounds like a winning system to me!
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09-17-2018, 10:26 AM
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#29
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#1 Goaltender
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Off wing set up on PP.
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09-17-2018, 10:29 AM
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#30
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Last period
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Ryan - Neal
Frolik - Backlund - Czarnik
Bennett - Jankowski - Hathaway
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I actually wouldn't mind seeing this as a variation of the 3rd period lineup:
Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Ryan - Neal
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik
Dube/Mangiapane - Jankowski - Czarnik
Think that actually gives you 4 pretty good lines that are really deep, and a top 9 that is really balanced. That 4th line would give other 4th lines fits IMO.
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09-17-2018, 11:58 AM
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#31
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Interesting that despite evidence to the contrary from this coaching staff, posters still finding ways to keep Bennett off the fourth line.
It was only one game, but watching czarnik made it pretty clear to me that he's a much better option for more minutes than Bennett has shown in his career thus far.
I didn't expect it to be that pronounced, but it's pretty clear to me now.
It will be fun to watch how the rest of preseason shakes out
Last edited by Flash Walken; 09-17-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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09-17-2018, 12:21 PM
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#32
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
Interesting that despite evidence to the contrary from this coaching staff, posters still finding ways to keep Bennett off the fourth line.
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Yes, we keep seeing Sam Bennett on the 2nd line in a lot of peoples line-up projections or written up as a top two line forward in their hopes but the only way he plays ahead of Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Neal and Backlund is if some of those players happen to get injured.
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09-17-2018, 01:18 PM
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#33
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
Interesting that despite evidence to the contrary from this coaching staff, posters still finding ways to keep Bennett off the fourth line.
It was only one game, but watching czarnik made it pretty clear to me that he's a much better option for more minutes than Bennett has shown in his career thus far.
I didn't expect it to be that pronounced, but it's pretty clear to me now.
It will be fun to watch how the rest of preseason shakes out
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Bit of shiny new toy too though.
I thought Czarnik looked great in a few give and go reads with Ryan and on the powerplay.
But Bennett with less ice time and on the fourth line almost created three goals on his own. I think if Bennett was an off season signing people would be pretty excited about that yet I've actually seen many say he struggled and they were disappointed.
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09-17-2018, 01:57 PM
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#34
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Bit of shiny new toy too though.
I thought Czarnik looked great in a few give and go reads with Ryan and on the powerplay.
But Bennett with less ice time and on the fourth line almost created three goals on his own. I think if Bennett was an off season signing people would be pretty excited about that yet I've actually seen many say he struggled and they were disappointed.
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I don't know if it's shiny new toy. I didn't think much of Czarnik, don't know anything about him really as a player.
In my opinion he showed to have fundamentally better puck skills than Bennett, and by virtue of being good on the Powerplay--which in my opinion Bennett never has--makes Czarnik a better option for more minutes.
Coaching staff seems to agree, at least thus far.
I'm really interested to see what happens for the main part of camp when the A and B squads are together.
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09-17-2018, 02:45 PM
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#35
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
I don't know if it's shiny new toy. I didn't think much of Czarnik, don't know anything about him really as a player.
In my opinion he showed to have fundamentally better puck skills than Bennett, and by virtue of being good on the Powerplay--which in my opinion Bennett never has--makes Czarnik a better option for more minutes.
Coaching staff seems to agree, at least thus far.
I'm really interested to see what happens for the main part of camp when the A and B squads are together.
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Once again though a fourth line winger (Bennett), went around one defender got a shot, drop pass in the neutral zone then jetted by two defenders to get himself in all alone on a give and go, then froze a Bruin with a toe drag and took the puck to the net on his own.
Doesn't have good puck skills?
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09-17-2018, 02:59 PM
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#36
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Once again though a fourth line winger (Bennett), went around one defender got a shot, drop pass in the neutral zone then jetted by two defenders to get himself in all alone on a give and go, then froze a Bruin with a toe drag and took the puck to the net on his own.
Doesn't have good puck skills?
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"fundamentally better puck skills"
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09-17-2018, 03:01 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
I don't know if it's shiny new toy. I didn't think much of Czarnik, don't know anything about him really as a player.
In my opinion he showed to have fundamentally better puck skills than Bennett, and by virtue of being good on the Powerplay--which in my opinion Bennett never has--makes Czarnik a better option for more minutes.
Coaching staff seems to agree, at least thus far.
I'm really interested to see what happens for the main part of camp when the A and B squads are together.
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I just personally like Bennett better on that Backlund/Frolik line that is going to get tougher match ups.
I really like Czarnik on a line where he can get more offensive minutes, and I think playing on that 4th line with offensively skilled youngsters like Janko and Mangiapane/Dube could be a really good spot for him.
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09-17-2018, 03:13 PM
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#38
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Owner
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
"fundamentally better puck skills"
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OK what do you mean then?
Takes puck skills to toe drag and go to the net, or drop a puck speed through and snag it.
Those are fundamentals.
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09-17-2018, 03:44 PM
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#39
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Void between Darkness and Light
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
OK what do you mean then?
Takes puck skills to toe drag and go to the net, or drop a puck speed through and snag it.
Those are fundamentals.
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Basically every guy who can make the NHL can do this in isolated bursts or samples. I have seen this from Bennett before. "almost" goals in a preseason game after 240 nhl games of experience isn't enough for me. They are now fleeting glimpses of skill, whereas Czarnik seems to be all about the skill, a finesse player who exudes skill.
I don't see a ton of puck skills often from Bennett, not often enough for me to believe he has untapped potential in that regard, or that he's a better fit for offensive minutes than a guy like Czarnik. For every sweet toe drag he pulls off in preseason, there are several unsuccessful in the regular season. He doesn't make it look easy.
Taking passes, skating with his head up without falling down, making minor adjustments, those are things I don't see from bennett and I didn't see them in the only preseason game this year.
I don't think there's some huge gulf between Czarnik and Bennett, I think they are both relatively borderline NHLers at this point, but in terms of offensive potential and where they can fit into a lineup, I think Czarnik has the better ability and potential to further develop offensively.
From what I've seen, Bennett struggles playing a skill game with skilled players. From what I've seen, Czarnik doesn't struggle to play a skilled game with skilled players. For me, it's as simple as that.
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09-17-2018, 04:09 PM
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#40
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken
From what I've seen, Bennett struggles playing a skill game with skilled players. From what I've seen, Czarnik doesn't struggle to play a skilled game with skilled players. For me, it's as simple as that.
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Care to elaborate? He looked very good with Jagr and Jankowski. The only reason that line wasn't more productive was bad luck, but they more than carried their fair share of driving play down the ice.
Bennett also looked good during the times when Hathaway wasn't a complete passenger. And when he got spot duty on Gaudreau's line as RW (but the season was already over). Janko was a step in the right direction but he's still fresh.
Let's not forget that outside of Janko, who had a four-goal game to close off the season, all of Sam's frequent linemates this season had abysmally bad SH%, even on a team that saw mostly regression in that area.
Your criticism of Bennett is also approaching ricardo/Dougie levels of bias. There's also that.
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