Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > Fire on Ice: The Calgary Flames Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-07-2018, 09:04 AM   #121
Yrebmi
First Line Centre
 
Yrebmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rocky Mt House
Exp:
Default

Backlund was not an RFA even be signed his new contract.
We knew who and what he was. There was no need to rely on expectations.
Yrebmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 10:09 AM   #122
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw View Post
Hanifin should be over 3 on a 2 year deal... Trouba was 6m for 2 years 2 years ago.

Lindholm 5x5 is the best case scenario. 3 x 2 and 6.3 x3 prime ufa years.

That is 1.7M less than Backlund for prime UFA years.


Backlund got 5.35 for 6 which breaks down to 8, 8, 8, 3, 2, 2 Backlund was breaking down last season the season he turned 29. his 30-31-32 seasons are expected to be great as there is no pattern or reason to expect that 33-34-35 years will be at a 1a C level.

I feel that the Flames panicked and paid Backlund too much but there is not a lot of general complaining about the contract. If Backlund's contract is fair then 5x5 for Lindholm is a real bargain

Based on expectation that Lindolm is a better player than Backlund.
Cane's model, while only a computation has been pretty accurate.

Hanifin gets ...

2 x 2.3
3 x 2.8
4 x 3.8
5 x 4.4
6 x 4.4
7 x 4.4

so you're 250k or high on a two year if he's right.

Lindholm gets ...

5 x 5.0
6 x 5.0

so if he's right it's not best case it's his predicted case to see 5x5

Cane before Backlund signed had him at 6*5.7 so the Flames saved 350K on that contract if compared to a model.

So I don't see a panic, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised (or annoyed) when the two Carolina guys come in reasonable.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Bingo For This Useful Post:
Old 07-07-2018, 10:23 AM   #123
Nelson
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
Cane's model, while only a computation has been pretty accurate.

Hanifin gets ...

2 x 2.3
3 x 2.8
4 x 3.8
5 x 4.4
6 x 4.4
7 x 4.4

so you're 250k or high on a two year if he's right.

Lindholm gets ...

5 x 5.0
6 x 5.0

so if he's right it's not best case it's his predicted case to see 5x5

Cane before Backlund signed had him at 6*5.7 so the Flames saved 350K on that contract if compared to a model.

So I don't see a panic, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised (or annoyed) when the two Carolina guys come in reasonable.
Thanks Bingo.

Also 7*4.4 sounds amazing to me. Do you think Hanifin’s camp would sign such a contract? I guess for his 3rd contract he’d be looking for an OEL or Carlson type deal if he improves that much (adjusted for increases in the salary cap).

6*5 also sounds good too.

Last edited by Nelson; 07-07-2018 at 11:57 AM.
Nelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 10:45 AM   #124
dino7c
Franchise Player
 
dino7c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niemo View Post
Not just points, but mainly defensive play. Hanifin can get there, but he isn't there yet. I'm sure anyone would take Slavin over Hanifin, and I've liked Hanifin since his draft year.

That being said, I hope our D coach can help Hanifin release his full potential.... after he signs long term.
Maybe, players are paid for points though. I would think their contracts would be similar. There has also been some salary inflation over the last year with the increase in cap.
__________________
GFG
dino7c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 12:55 PM   #125
Freeway
Franchise Player
 
Freeway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Backlund was a pending UFA, though, so it's a tough comparison.
__________________
PHWA Member // Managing Editor @ FlamesNation // Author of "On The Clock: Behind The Scenes with the Calgary Flames at the NHL Draft" // Twitter

"Does a great job covering the Flames" - Elliotte Friedman
Freeway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 01:54 PM   #126
ricardodw
Franchise Player
 
ricardodw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
Cane's model, while only a computation has been pretty accurate.

Hanifin gets ...

2 x 2.3
3 x 2.8
4 x 3.8
5 x 4.4
6 x 4.4
7 x 4.4

so you're 250k or high on a two year if he's right.

Lindholm gets ...

5 x 5.0
6 x 5.0

so if he's right it's not best case it's his predicted case to see 5x5

Cane before Backlund signed had him at 6*5.7 so the Flames saved 350K on that contract if compared to a model.

So I don't see a panic, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised (or annoyed) when the two Carolina guys come in reasonable.
When Backlund signed he was a top end #2c. Since he signed he has become a top end #3C.


Do you expect Backlund to be better than Lindholm in 2018-19? any year in the future?
ricardodw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 02:03 PM   #127
the2bears
Franchise Player
 
the2bears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Bay Area
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw View Post
When Backlund signed he was a top end #2c. Since he signed he has become a top end #3C.


Do you expect Backlund to be better than Lindholm in 2018-19? any year in the future?

Explain why that matters?
the2bears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 02:04 PM   #128
ThaBrink
Backup Goalie
 
ThaBrink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Kamloops, B.C.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw View Post
When Backlund signed he was a top end #2c. Since he signed he has become a top end #3C.


Do you expect Backlund to be better than Lindholm in 2018-19? any year in the future?
Lol over the course of the last what, 25 games Backlund dropped from a very good #2C to a very good #3C?? You're kidding right?
ThaBrink is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ThaBrink For This Useful Post:
Old 07-07-2018, 02:06 PM   #129
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw View Post
When Backlund signed he was a top end #2c. Since he signed he has become a top end #3C.


Do you expect Backlund to be better than Lindholm in 2018-19? any year in the future?
Or...... he had an off year. These things happen.

Hard to say who will be better this year, Lindholm certainly has the potential to pass him. But that is irrelevant to his contract negotiations because it hasn't happened yet.

The facts, such as they are, are that Lindholm is an RFA. And his career high is 45 points, whereas Backlund had just completed a 53 point season before signing his (entirely UFA) contract.

Lindholm will not get as much as Backlund, that is almost a certainty.
Enoch Root is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 04:10 PM   #130
ricardodw
Franchise Player
 
ricardodw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the2bears View Post
Explain why that matters?
Same reason the Flames don't want to pay anyone more than Gio.

Having your highest priced players contributing the most to team success makes for a good team.
ricardodw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 04:27 PM   #131
the2bears
Franchise Player
 
the2bears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Bay Area
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricardodw View Post
Same reason the Flames don't want to pay anyone more than Gio.

Having your highest priced players contributing the most to team success makes for a good team.

I doubt it makes much of a difference. You have ELCs, RFAs, UFAs, players signed at different times under different salary cap situations, player salaries inherited through trades.

Pay scales are inherently unfair. Players get that. Backlund's pay with respect to Lindholm's won't affect either of their contributions to team success.
the2bears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 04:52 PM   #132
Niemo
Scoring Winger
 
Niemo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default

Lindholm and Hanifin have done nothing to date to be worth 5MM IMO.
Niemo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 04:53 PM   #133
Niemo
Scoring Winger
 
Niemo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Exp:
Default

Treliving is also a grinder when it comes to resigning players. Hopefully he is the gift that keeps on giving this offseason...
Niemo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 04:56 PM   #134
The Cobra
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niemo View Post
Lindholm and Hanifin have done nothing to date to be worth 5MM IMO.
If you sign them to a contract that covers some UFA years, you have to pay them accordingly.

A 6 year contract for either one will be based partly on expectation.

If you wait, it could easily cost you quite a bit more.
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 04:59 PM   #135
GranteedEV
Franchise Player
 
GranteedEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Would like to see us sign Hanifin to a Klefbom type deal. I think that is very fair
__________________

"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
GranteedEV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2018, 07:19 PM   #136
Canada 02
Franchise Player
 
Canada 02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Exp:
Default

Hanifin's former teammate, Brett Pesce is a pretty good comparable

6 year, $4.025 per
Canada 02 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Canada 02 For This Useful Post:
Old 07-07-2018, 07:31 PM   #137
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
Cane's model, while only a computation has been pretty accurate.

Hanifin gets ...

2 x 2.3
3 x 2.8
4 x 3.8
5 x 4.4
6 x 4.4
7 x 4.4

so you're 250k or high on a two year if he's right.

Lindholm gets ...

5 x 5.0
6 x 5.0

so if he's right it's not best case it's his predicted case to see 5x5

Cane before Backlund signed had him at 6*5.7 so the Flames saved 350K on that contract if compared to a model.

So I don't see a panic, and I think you might be pleasantly surprised (or annoyed) when the two Carolina guys come in reasonable.
If you can convince Hanifin to sign for 6 or 7 years in the low $4s, you have to jump all over it. Otherwise, it's 2 or 3 years. The one thing you can't do, is sign him for 4 or 5 years though, that makes no sense.

As for Lindholm, I think it comes in under $5M (high 4s) unless he agrees to 7 years.

I will predict 6 x $4.9M - takes him to 29 where he can still cash in.
Enoch Root is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Enoch Root For This Useful Post:
Old 07-08-2018, 11:22 AM   #138
Jeff Lebowski
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Exp:
Default

For the money predicted for Lindholm, I really hope we see growth in his offensive game. It's in him as he was drafted in the top 5 but I wonder if he's had to pay more attention to his defensive game just because of the team in Carolina.

As Hartley said to Monahan, he wanted him to not focus too much on defence as can happen to young guys that are in top roles. I'm really excited that the Flames have Lindholm but I really want to see a skill game from him.

Ideally I'd like to see him stick handle and carry the puck wth speed and confidence, show some ability to beat guys 1 on 1 and do it in tight spaces. If he can draw guys towards him and dish off to open team mates I'd be really happy.

Treliving and Peters both mentioned high end skill (Treliving saying he's only scratched the surface) but also versatility. I can agree that versatility is not a bad thing but sometimes I think of those guys as player who can't solidify a position (like a utility player in baseball). I'm probably wrong in having that concern.
Jeff Lebowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2018, 11:35 AM   #139
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
For the money predicted for Lindholm, I really hope we see growth in his offensive game. It's in him as he was drafted in the top 5 but I wonder if he's had to pay more attention to his defensive game just because of the team in Carolina...
It is fairly common for high scoring players like Lindholm who grew up playing in the SEL to take several years to adjust to the offensive side of the game in the NHL. Lindholm is at about the right age to experience a breakout.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project
Textcritic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2018, 11:40 AM   #140
Jeff Lebowski
#1 Goaltender
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic View Post
It is fairly common for high scoring players like Lindholm who grew up playing in the SEL to take several years to adjust to the offensive side of the game in the NHL. Lindholm is at about the right age to experience a breakout.
Good point and it may be fairly evident but why do you think there is such and adjustment period (and it's length)? Dimensions of the rink and the associated tactics?
Jeff Lebowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:05 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021