03-23-2018, 08:15 AM
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#4361
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Taking a while to get to 5000
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^ Wish I could use all my thanks on this. I've been saying the same thing for almost 2 years now. Bang F'N on.
I've been a little bi-polar on GG. I wanted him to succeed. I've jumped on his bandwagon when he looked like he was getting results after finally showing some emotion but ultimately the above is true. He could never get out of his own way.
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03-23-2018, 09:56 AM
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#4362
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
IMO, it's less that Gulutzan doesn't believe in them, it's that he doesn't understand them, or even care to.
I'd describe his system as an assembly line. He has roles that he wants filled, and he puts people in them regardless of their capability to fulfill them. Brodie, left hand shot. Must be LD, even though he's better as RD. Brouwer, right hand shot. Therefore top pick for both PP and PK. Hamilton. RD, which means he's not a fit for the 1-3-1 powerplay because the system relies on bringing the puck up the left side, and only up the left side. Etc.
Gulutzan demands that players adapt to fit the jobs he gives them, while remaining completely inflexible himself. He doesn't adapt his system to his players' strengths, and the only times he has shown any inclination to change things up was when forced by injury. When left to his own devices, this is how Gulutzan views his players:
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If the process is more important than the players then you cant complain about the players not being talented enough to execute the process.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something. - The Dread Pirate Roberts
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03-23-2018, 09:57 AM
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#4363
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
IMO, it's less that Gulutzan doesn't believe in them, it's that he doesn't understand them, or even care to.
I'd describe his system as an assembly line. He has roles that he wants filled, and he puts people in them regardless of their capability to fulfill them. Brodie, left hand shot. Must be LD, even though he's better as RD. Brouwer, right hand shot. Therefore top pick for both PP and PK. Hamilton. RD, which means he's not a fit for the 1-3-1 powerplay because the system relies on bringing the puck up the left side, and only up the left side. Etc.
Gulutzan demands that players adapt to fit the jobs he gives them, while remaining completely inflexible himself. He doesn't adapt his system to his players' strengths, and the only times he has shown any inclination to change things up was when forced by injury. When left to his own devices, this is how Gulutzan views his players:
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Somebody put this post on a billboard near the Saddledome.
__________________
If you don't pass this sig to ten of your friends, you will become an Oilers fan.
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03-23-2018, 10:06 AM
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#4364
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
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Further to the analysis about Hamilton on the PP, has anyone noticed that because every team is expecting the puck to be carried up the left side, that Hamilton has been free and clear about a billion times every game going into the o-zone up the right side?
__________________
If you don't pass this sig to ten of your friends, you will become an Oilers fan.
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03-23-2018, 10:08 AM
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#4365
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In the Sin Bin
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That's because literally every single person in the building knows the plan is to get it to Gaudreau. The crazy thing is, Gaudreau is so good, it works. Zone entries haven't really been our problem with the PP. It's everything that comes after.
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03-23-2018, 11:45 AM
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#4366
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Innisfail
Exp:
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Next month after Gulutzan is fired, I will always remember him for putting Troy Brouwer out to take 3 short handed defensive zone faceoffs in a row in a OT loss against the Kings. Meanwhile Monahan, Janko, and even Bennett watched from the bench.
When Treliving beings him in the office for the end of year meetings I hope he shows Gully that "highlight" before he fires him.
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03-23-2018, 11:50 AM
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#4367
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Haifa, Israel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
This argument won't go away but doesn't make much sense.
The Flames from 5 years ago had a GM, assistant and a coaching staff.
Now they have a head of hockey operations, a GM, and three assistants and a coaching staff.
If they were insistent on hiring cheap coaches why did they double their hockey exec contingent?
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It is actually easy to explain.
Owners spend to the cap, but they don't spend much on any particular player nor on a particular coach. They do, however, spend a lot on execs and players as whole.
They believe, that in parity era when even Sabres and Oilers have excellent pieces, it is team composition, strategic master plan and shrewd asset management that win you games. Coaching, on the other hand, seems overrated to them and doesn't matter much as long, as you have a tastefully assembled squad.
That is not necessarily a dumb opinion and does explain why the owners spend the way they do.
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03-23-2018, 12:16 PM
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#4368
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Hill
Next month after Gulutzan is fired, I will always remember him for putting Troy Brouwer out to take 3 short handed defensive zone faceoffs in a row in a OT loss against the Kings. Meanwhile Monahan, Janko, and even Bennett watched from the bench.
When Treliving beings him in the office for the end of year meetings I hope he shows Gully that "highlight" before he fires him.
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I thought it was the Sabres, I was at that game, me and a bunch of others, actually the whole section were yelling WTF!!!
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03-23-2018, 12:18 PM
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#4369
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Taking a while to get to 5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midniteowl
I thought it was the Sabres, I was at that game, me and a bunch of others, actually the whole section were yelling WTF!!!
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It was. Lost that last draw, puck got to Eichel and it was done.
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03-23-2018, 12:31 PM
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#4370
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First Line Centre
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Heh, that one sticks out for me too. At the 1st whistle I remember thinking "Oh good we can get someone fresh out there, and y'know, maybe a center." Anyway just like most, a couple whistles later, I was raging at dumbass gulutzan, or "gullickson" as i swear Kelly Hrudey is saying.
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03-23-2018, 12:33 PM
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#4371
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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It was so strange because he cleanly lost every faceoff so I think everyone watching expected him to come out for that last faceoff seeing they were under siege prior to the last whistle. Not to be as he loses the faceoff clean and a within a few seconds it's game over.
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03-23-2018, 12:37 PM
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#4372
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Grew up in Calgary now living in USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazam
Somebody put this post on a billboard near the Saddledome.
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Someone needs to photoshop the top of a Flames helmet in the round hole!
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03-23-2018, 12:38 PM
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#4373
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrum
Heh, that one sticks out for me too. At the 1st whistle I remember thinking "Oh good we can get someone fresh out there, and y'know, maybe a center." Anyway just like most, a couple whistles later, I was raging at dumbass gulutzan, or "gullickson" as i swear Kelly Hrudey is saying.
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That's EXACTLY what I said to my nephew, when they didn't change, we were thinking, "what?" At the end, the whole section were calling for Gulutzan's head, yelling fire this dumbass.
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03-23-2018, 12:51 PM
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#4374
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midniteowl
I thought it was the Sabres, I was at that game, me and a bunch of others, actually the whole section were yelling WTF!!!
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It is one of the most nonsensical things I have ever witnessed a coach do in the NHL.
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03-23-2018, 01:10 PM
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#4375
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Not the 1 millionth post winnar
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
It is one of the most nonsensical things I have ever witnessed a coach do in the NHL.
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And it was against the top faceoff center in the league - O'Reilly.
__________________
"Isles give up 3 picks for 5.5 mil of cap space.
Oilers give up a pick and a player to take on 5.5 mil."
-Bax
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03-23-2018, 01:17 PM
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#4376
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: YYC
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The Oilers game which we lost 5:7. We were on the roll and Johnny missed the breakaway, then we got a PP at the score being 5:6. They put Brouwer on....I was yelling in my section. Even casual fans could see the problems but not GG and Cameron. How many games after, they stripped Brodie for Hamilton on the first unit? 50+ games?
Last edited by SOMBRI2; 03-23-2018 at 01:34 PM.
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03-23-2018, 01:30 PM
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#4377
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointman
It is actually easy to explain.
Owners spend to the cap, but they don't spend much on any particular player nor on a particular coach. They do, however, spend a lot on execs and players as whole.
They believe, that in parity era when even Sabres and Oilers have excellent pieces, it is team composition, strategic master plan and shrewd asset management that win you games. Coaching, on the other hand, seems overrated to them and doesn't matter much as long, as you have a tastefully assembled squad.
That is not necessarily a dumb opinion and does explain why the owners spend the way they do.
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Thinking coaching isn't important is a dumb opinion. Surprisingly popular, but still dumb.
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03-23-2018, 01:47 PM
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#4378
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Innisfail
Exp:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midniteowl
I thought it was the Sabres, I was at that game, me and a bunch of others, actually the whole section were yelling WTF!!!
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Your right it was the Sabres, I remembered it as the Kings for some reason, although I did black out after yelling at my TV...
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03-23-2018, 02:09 PM
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#4379
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbit
It is called the abundance of skill and mega depth system.
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While it is true that these are deep, skilled teams what they do more than CGY is bring the attack down the middle. This causes opponents to collapse in and opens up space - ie attack down the wings with speed.
With CGY the most common breakout and attack is as follows:
Puck goes d to do and then up the boards to a winger at the blue line who chips it deep. They then try to regain the puck down low and send back to the point for a shot through a well defended scoring area - hoping for a tip or a rebound.
The good teams create space by attacking the middle causing the opponent to lose their defensive 'shape'. Add to that the ability to gain the blue line without dumping it and you get plays were quality chances can be had.
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03-23-2018, 02:30 PM
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#4380
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Hill
Next month after Gulutzan is fired, I will always remember him for putting Troy Brouwer out to take 3 short handed defensive zone faceoffs in a row in a OT loss against the Kings. Meanwhile Monahan, Janko, and even Bennett watched from the bench.
When Treliving beings him in the office for the end of year meetings I hope he shows Gully that "highlight" before he fires him.
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I remember that too, and its a really big reason I've been hesitant to cut Gulutzan a ton of slack.
There is no defending those decisions.
And thats what really kills me about Gulutzan. His expectations of his players and his unwillingness to adapt himself.
Its that oft-misconstrued definition of insanity. He kept doing the same thing over and over again and expected different results seemingly oblivious that there was always more than just one force or factor at play.
And finally the fact that over the course of 82 games all of these consistently repeated mistakes cost points.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something. - The Dread Pirate Roberts
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