The Last Jedi Spoiler thread

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GGG

This is already been answered when you insert a character into an existing universe and intentionally don't reveal his origins, make it clear he had relations with the main characters family, and then kill him without answering questions.

Even a flashback sequence to Luke's Acadamy with Snoke and Ren would have been enough to add depth. It's important because you are asking us to accept that this person converted Ben Solo to the dark side

And exactly what about the emperor were you made aware of that convinced you he turned Vader?

Seriously, people are projecting here. Snoke is so much like the emperor the only complaint should be that he’s the exact same character and a rip off.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Then they shouldn't plan seeds of interest in Episode 7 when describing Snoke turning Kylo, flashbacks of Rey being dropped off at Jakku, if none of this matters.

If it's just good versus evil, red versus blue, then I suppose this is my end with this franchise.

Seriously? The entire main trilogy is nothing but good vs evil. But now with these movies you’re done with that?

Not to mention these two movies have moved away from just that. This movie focused a lot that it isn’t that simple.

So if you hate good vs evil then you hate the original trilogy and like the new movies because they have way more grey than the originals ever had.

[Ashasx]

I don't hate good versus evil. I like some of these tropes.

But if all Star Wars is now is a quick popcorn flick where you can turn your brain off for a few hours, where you don't need to connect any dots or find interest in the lore of this universe, then it's nothing we haven't seen before.

Maybe that's not why you like Star Wars, but at least it's why I did.

[Roughneck]

Yes, the complaint is that Snoke is just the Emperor character again. Beyond being simply lazy and boring storytelling, it doesn't make sense in a universe where the Emperor already existed, and died, and consolidated power the way he did.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

And exactly what about the emperor were you made aware of that convinced you he turned Vader?

Seriously, people are projecting here. Snoke is so much like the emperor the only complaint should be that he’s the exact same character and a rip off.

I don't understand how this addresses my statement.

This movie and VII told me that Snoke was close the parents of Jedi Master Luke Skywalkwr and Rebelliom heroes Han and Leia. He had acces to the child of the 2 most famous people in the galaxy. Luke could see this happening.

And your telling me it doesn't matter who he was or where he came from or why Luke didn't deal with him earlier.

This I didn't know this about the emperor so I don't need to know about Snoke is a bad analogy. The knowledge of the universe has changed since these two stories were told. Bland uninspired Villians is a problem in current fantasy storytelling.

[GGG]

And in choosing not to provide Snoke back story they instead shoehorned bencio del toro in there. Some riding of random animal, and a lepricon feeding coins into a bb8 slot machine.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GGG

And in choosing not to provide Snoke back story they instead shoehorned bencio del toro in there. Some riding of random animal, and a lepricon feeding coins into a bb8 slot machine.

The best thing they could have done is kill Snoke off. He's a boring villain, and he offers nothing to the story. By now, it's clear we're watching the story of Kylo and Rey. How Rey defeats/redeems Kylo is now more interesting without the presence of Snoke, since Kylo is now entirely responsible for his own actions.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don't understand how this addresses my statement.

This movie and VII told me that Snoke was close the parents of Jedi Master Luke Skywalkwr and Rebelliom heroes Han and Leia. He had acces to the child of the 2 most famous people in the galaxy. Luke could see this happening.

And your telling me it doesn't matter who he was or where he came from or why Luke didn't deal with him earlier.

This I didn't know this about the emperor so I don't need to know about Snoke is a bad analogy. The knowledge of the universe has changed since these two stories were told. Bland uninspired Villians is a problem in current fantasy storytelling.

Nothing about these movies suggested that Snoke was close to any of those characters. No idea where you got that from. It wasn’t even hinted at in either movie.

Pretty simple. After the collapse of the empire things didn’t go as smoothly as Luke and Leia planned. Not everyone lived happily ever after. Instead what happened is that the power vacuum created invited another evil Sith to just fill that role that the emperor had.

Leia kept on fighting and luke tried to raise a new era of Jedi to turn the tide. When the evil leader of the new empire called the first order managed to outmaneuver Luke and steal his best pupil, Luke gave up and went into hiding. This also ruined Han and Leia’s marriage. How did Snoke do it? Well Yoda hinted it was because Luke has a tendency to not see things right in front of him and be overconfident.

Was Snoke right there in hiding right in front of Luke? Doubtful. I’m guessing he did it from a distance or with help. Is there an interesting story there? Maybe. But some things are best not shown, just referenced or hinted at. We learned what happens when you answer these questions when Lucas tried to answer all the questions about vader’s backstory.


There. All explained. And all stuff I was able to fill in from watching the actual movies we’ve seen. Pretty much exactly how I picture the filmmakers intended us to fill in those gaps. And I know they didn’t show us all this because all the main actors had aged 40 years and they couldn’t show it all. They needed to just skip ahead and trust the audience could fill in those gaps.

[Flashpoint]

Best movie of the franchise.

It was fun! The opening phonecall was hilarious and exactly what Han would have done. Oh, did you forget "we're fine, how are you?"

I'm sorry if you wasted time on lore. "Let the past die". Rey's parents are unimportant. As they should be since the force doesn't need to be inherited.

Snope wasnt interesting. Kylo is and needed to "grow up" to be a true villian, and kiling Snope is the perfect step to do so.

Poe and Rose are the BEST characters because the are just regular joes trying to make a go of it surrounded by chaos. They fail and get their asses kicked, but still perservere - which is the real message!

We don't win by destroying what we hate. We win by saving what we love.

What a great message.

This movie was amazing and i cannot wait to see where it goes next.

[ComixZone]

...killing off Snoke without explaining him/his power completely undercuts Luke Skywalker, because how was Snoke able to corrupt Kylo? Or are we to take Luke’s admission of his own failures as a disarming of Snoke all together? At which point, why do you have these useless characters introduced in the first place? It’s a trilogy - it’s supposed to build on the previous film, not entirely discredit it.

The more I digest my two viewings, the more I dislike it. It’s a bad movie with a few cool scenes, and that’s all it is for me sadly.

The throne room was such a great scene, and it placed the entire Star Wars universe in such a cool place...and then they totally did away with it. Such a disappointment.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

And in choosing not to provide Snoke back story they instead shoehorned bencio del toro in there. Some riding of random animal, and a lepricon feeding coins into a bb8 slot machine.

It had a lot of the same failings as episode 1, where a lot of the time was spent with unimportant side quests. At times it felt like it had the pacing of a video game.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Modern day reviewing of the original trilogy:

IV. Fun popcorn movie but it is paint by numbers good vs evil. All the best characters are left unexplained. They kill off the most interesting character and best actor in the first 45 mins. Predictable ending where the bad guys somehow are totally incompetent with the random hole that blows up their super weapon. How did they build this thing in the first place if they are so dumb?

V. Downer follow up with a cheap twist that totally undermines Obi Wan’s explanation to Luke about his father in the first movie, one of the few parts of that movie that had some gravitas. No real conclusion to the movie, just ends. Introduces mysterious emperor which also undercuts Vader as a villain that matters and then emperor is never explained. Luke gets like 5 minutes of training and now he’s a Jedi? Serisouly unless they were on cloud city for a month, how much training did he even get? Seemed like they were on cloud city for a few days tops. Is that even enough time for him to find yoda let alone become a Jedi? And how did the emperor even turn Vader in the first place? Obi wan just wasn’t paying attention or what? Why wasn’t the relationship between emperor and Obi wan explained? Way more interesting than the stupid twist about Luke’s father.

VI. Total sell out. Rehash of first movie. More of this random emperor guy who got no backstory and now they’ve tacked on these dwarf teddy bears to sell toys. Luke made out with his sister? How much retconning are they gonna do here to ruin this franchise? If this emperor is really In charge, why was he never given a back story? Isn’t he the real enemy, not Vader? And he can shoot lightning? Why didn’t we see this before? Isn’t Vader all powerful? If they make another sequel I’m not even gonna watch it. All the magic from the original has been stripped away and it wasn’t that good to begin with. The entire first half hour is pointless. Why wouldn’t Luke just use his newfound super Jedi powers to break in and just save Han? Total filler.

[Ashasx]

Mocking our complaints really doesn't facilitate further discussion. I'm glad you enjoyed the movie, it just wasn't for me.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Modern day reviewing of the original trilogy:

IV. Fun popcorn movie but it is paint by numbers good vs evil. All the best characters are left unexplained. They kill off the most interesting character and best actor in the first 45 mins. Predictable ending where the bad guys somehow are totally incompetent with the random hole that blows up their super weapon. How did they build this thing in the first place if they are so dumb?

V. Downer follow up with a cheap twist that totally undermines Obi Wan’s explanation to Luke about his father in the first movie, one of the few parts of that movie that had some gravitas. No real conclusion to the movie, just ends. Introduces mysterious emperor which also undercuts Vader as a villain that matters and then emperor is never explained. Luke gets like 5 minutes of training and now he’s a Jedi? Serisouly unless they were on cloud city for a month, how much training did he even get? Seemed like they were on cloud city for a few days tops. Is that even enough time for him to find yoda let alone become a Jedi?

VI. Total sell out. Rehash of first movie. More of this random emperor guy who got no backstory and now they’ve tacked on these dwarf teddy bears to sell toys. Luke made out with his sister? How much retconning are they gonna do here to ruin this franchise? If this emperor is really In charge, why was he never given a back story? Isn’t he the real enemy, not Vader? And he can shoot lightning? Why didn’t we see this before? Isn’t Vader all powerful? If they make another sequel I’m not even gonna watch it. All the magic from the original has been stripped away and it wasn’t that good to begin with. The entire first half hour is pointless. Why wouldn’t Luke just use his newfound super Jedi powers to break in and just save Han? Total filler.

This is a pretty accurate review of how I feel these movies would have been received in the internet/forum age

[OutOfTheCube]

You can also accept you like a bad movie instead of endlessly trying to prove it’s great. I like Fast and Furious movies, even though they’re super dumb. I just had higher expectations for Star Wars.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Jbo

This is a pretty accurate review of how I feel these movies would have been received in the internet/forum age

Complaints that Vader being Luke's father contradicting Episode 4 is not an accurate retrospective.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

That’s cool you didn’t like the movie. It wasn’t for everyone. I myself didn’t love it. I’m not entirely pleased with the lack of story ideas. They had 40 friggin years to think of stuff. You’d think you’d be able to have the entire trilogy mapped out to a t in that time. But in the end I dig some of the things they’re doing and the themes they are exploring. I also felt like the story was passable but neither amazing or crappy. I do really like all the new era characters, save rose and I didn’t mind the point of her character, it just wasn’t executed the best.

And I’m not mocking. I’m proving a point that so many of the complaints directly apply to the original trilogy. I blame 40 years of expectations.

[direwolf]

There's still one more movie to go, folks. For all we know, Snoke's back story might still be revealed in the final chapter for those who are pissed about his limited role so far. Abrams mentioned in a recent interview that he's looking forward to the challenge of tying up all the loose ends. Even if Snoke isn't completely explained, I have a feeling they'll at least address some of those questions, perhaps in flashbacks like we saw with Luke in VIII. Or maybe Luke shows up as a force ghost and fills in some of the story a-la Obi-Wan Kenobi in Empire/Jedi.

[White Out 403]

alright I guess my two biggest gripes were the killing of Snoke, and, the decision to go with Ren as the new "final" boss for our heros to slay. One person earlier in this thread wrote they found the movie predictable; I would say this movies unpredictable plot choices were a benefit. Did people really think that Luke would die, Snoke would die, and Leia would survive? I sure as #### didn't.

I remember when they were planning on how to solve their jump to light speed issue. This whole plot was really paper thin, and I remember thinking "well, they obviously arent going to leave the ship to go to some other plan.... or they are...". It REALLY deflates the sense of danger when they can just go on a space run to a space casino, watch some space horse racing, and then wind up in space jail. then get space rescued by a space lockpicker, and space escape. All in time to get them out of the jam.

And whats worse? They actually have it not work. All that #### was for nothing. So you expect it to work, and when it doesn't I guess its kind of surprising but... there's no sense of danger still for the main characters.

Rose was kind of a crappy throw in and her time would have been better spent with Rey and Snoke. Rey is actually really fantastic. Her character is interesting, the actress is delivering her great and is sexy AF, but its not super distracting.

Kylo Ren has basically been brought along as a pissy little child, and he's now the supreme leader? Stupid. They had a lot of really interesting directions to go with and they chose very poorly. They could have have the Snoke/Rey/Ren as the final ending, leading into a new trilogy. Instead they wanted to do everything under the sun in this movie.

Oh and don't get me started on the ridiculous plot device of Luke not really dying in battle with Ren, only to die right after anyways. I wanted to throw popcorn at the screen.

Lots to like about the movie itself but that all gets bogged down by very questionable "big" decisions. Ill close tho by writing that I think writing Reys parents as "nobodies" was in fact the right call. She is the best part of this trilogy easily and I am very pleased she will now be the primary hero. She also would have made a delightful villain but this is the right move.

[Jbo]

I think that people's problems are totally valid by the way. This is a very loved franchise for many people, and it would be impossible for the film makers to please everyone. I was happy they took a few risks and moved the story away from what was expected. Others will not be happy they dropped so many things like Snoke, or had pointless plot points like the casino side mission...I will say that we have only seen 2/3rds of this trilogy's story, so will reserve some of that criticism until the story is complete.