Accounting major vs Finance major

[calf]

Do any of you bcomm grads remember when you had to declare your concentration by? I don't think there's an official date, just when you need the prereqs, right?

I just finished in December (accounting)- when I was going through, the whole concentration issue wasn't near as big of a deal as it is now. I actually can't believe the pressure the school seems to put on people for picking a concentration (which, I believe, is during 2nd year). If you start going through a program and you don't like it, you don't have to stay in it.

That being said, I think firebug & others nailed it.

Don't go based on salary alone. Your starting salary in accounting (assuming you want to go the CA route) isn't nearly as good as starting in finance. As you go along, however, it does increase pretty well (ie, after 2-3 years or so).

Which class did you enjoy the most? Maybe you liked them both equally, or hated one and liked another, maybe you hated them both. This is the kind of stuff you'll likely be doing for the first several years after graduation.

Are you in co-op? If you can get some experience doing both types of work, you'll have a better idea what you like better and, if necessary, can change your concentration later on, instead of finding out after 4 years and thousands of dollars that you hate what you're doing.

Keep in mind, I'm not sure about Finance types, but if you do accounting, you'll be pretty much expected to do a designation afterwards, so you won't be done your education once you're done your degree.

[Nicole]

Like everyone else here has said, you have to go where your intrest lies and do what you know you'll enjoy doing more, regardless of the pay .. and fortunately both pay fairly well.

My best friend was an Accountant and after she had kids she decided to stay home with them. Last year she needed to go back into the workforce for personal reasons and rather than go back into accounting she took a job at the library for A LOT less pay b/c she hated accounting and has told me that she will never work as an accountant ever again. On the other hand my Grandma was an accountant and still practices on a part time basis and enjoys it, so I guess to each their own .. you just have to find what you enjoy more and go for it. Like others have said, it's not worth going into a job you hate but doing it b/c the money is good - you'll be miserable.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

The thing you have to understand is that the term "Accountant" can mean anything from book keeper with a few courses from a community college to a CA with 3 years of articling and courses, along with a degree. Big difference in what they do and see on a daily basis. Higher level accountants typically shed the debits and credits for others, and focus more on the big picture items. Typically the people that call it dry think of the book keepers, but don't see the higher end of things. It's still not a gig as photographer with Sports Illustrated, but then again, neither is anything in Finance. At the end of the day, both dwell in the realm of numbers.

The same can be said of Finance - what firebug said is particularly true
- the top 5% of your class is going to get in to i-banking, equity research and the glam jobs. In my year (some years back), it dropped off steeply after that, and a credit analyst job or bank teller job was the best a mid class (in marks) person could land.

[Language]

I'm currently in Accounting in 2nd year business (3rd year overall) and the responses so far have been pretty accurate. From the introductory Finance class that I took, I absolutely despised it, and my mark showed, while I generally found the introductory accounting class more exciting (if I can even use that word). From all of the business classes so far that I have taken such as marketing, finance, organization management, management science, accounting, etc...I have found accounting to be a better fit for myself because for myself personally, it actually seems like I'm learning something that I can use day to day, which isn't a slight to anyone doing other business degrees. For example, while taking a marketing class it was basically all memorization, while taking an accounting class I was actually able to open a company's financial statements and figure out what the hell was going on. Of course, that might have been because it was only an introductory marketing class and I wasn't actually doing any market research, etc.

In all honesty, I don't think any kid grows up saying "I wanna be an accountant" with enthusiasm unless they're pretty big nerds, but from what I've encountered in business, it's the best of the worst. That's the only way I can put it.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I certainly wouldn't say that accountants make a lot of money, unless they're self-employed. They make decent money working for someone, and most accountants are very far from being partner material at one of the big accounting firms.

70 hours is apparently a good week

[TheCommodoreAfro]

I did marketing. Glad I did - managed to wiggle my way into an ad agency here in Tokyo which is busy, but fun. But if I had to make a choice between accounting and finance, I would do finance over accounting. More flexibility (you can take your skills anywhere) and more chance to work in a variety of industries.
Just an opinion, but that's what you were looking for, right?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Jake

70 hours is apparently a good week

It all depends where you work. My friend used to work at CP Rail and she never worked more than 40 hours a week, and she had lots of free time during work hours. She moved to Shell, which is a total accounting cluster****, and she works insane hours there, including weekends.

The difference? CP Rail has an IT system that helps the accountants be productive. Shell still uses a lot of manual processes, so they just keep on hiring accountants to help with workload.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Shazam

It all depends where you work. My friend used to work at CP Rail and she never worked more than 40 hours a week, and she had lots of free time during work hours. She moved to Shell, which is a total accounting cluster****, and she works insane hours there, including weekends.

The difference? CP Rail has an IT system that helps the accountants be productive. Shell still uses a lot of manual processes, so they just keep on hiring accountants to help with workload.

Shazam, are you even an accountant yourself? Or just relaying anecdotal experiences from your friends? This and a couple of your other posts in this thread are way off the mark.

Is your friend a designated accountant? CGA, CMA, CA? That makes a big difference in hours worked, how interesting their work is, and of course, how much salary they command. A low level book keeper typically has more 8 to 5 hours. The 70 hours Jake was talking about might have been in reference to articling CA's for which 70 hours during busy season isn't out of the question. But then again the salaries of CA's tend to be higher than the other two.

CPR uses SAP as it's ERP while Shell uses EnterpriseOne/JDE I believe. You make it sound like CPR is this technological marvel of accounting efficiency, which trust me, it isn't. I'm not doubting that Shell accounting isn't a gong show that has your friend working a few OT hours, but perhaps it's due to the fact that the home office has them wrapped up in an $8.0 billion dollar takeover.

So really, it's not "where you work" so much as "what you do where you work".

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Sheva #7

Hey guys

I am a 3rd year student at UofC and can't decide which major to pick accounting or finance. I am just wondering if someone could give me some insight into which one is better? possiblly pays more money, nature of job etc...maybe someone here has finished one of those and can give me some advise that would be great...

Sheva I didn't read every post so this may be a little redundant, but it depends primarily on your interest. After that, here's some tie breakers:

Accounting is dry, regimented, routine work that pays poorly at first. It's easier to get a first job and marketable accross disciplines. Your overall development may be slower but there's a greater probability that you can do very well in the long run. Accountants usually work more hours and need to schedule your life around month/quarter/year ends.

Finance majors end up doing a wide range of things, you can better exercise creativity and be a better 'business person' and develop better commercial acumen. Your success is much more dependant on the quality of your decision making and thought process.

I had the same decision to make at year three, through my bias you may be able to guess what direction I went and am glad I did. Nowadays I basically value things ... assets, ideas, contracts, businesses etc and love it.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Shazam, are you even an accountant yourself? Or just relaying anecdotal experiences from your friends? This and a couple of your other posts in this thread are way off the mark.

Is your friend a designated accountant? CGA, CMA, CA? That makes a big difference in hours worked, how interesting their work is, and of course, how much salary they command. A low level book keeper typically has more 8 to 5 hours. The 70 hours Jake was talking about might have been in reference to articling CA's for which 70 hours during busy season isn't out of the question. But then again the salaries of CA's tend to be higher than the other two.

CPR uses SAP as it's ERP while Shell uses EnterpriseOne/JDE I believe. You make it sound like CPR is this technological marvel of accounting efficiency, which trust me, it isn't. I'm not doubting that Shell accounting isn't a gong show that has your friend working a few OT hours, but perhaps it's due to the fact that the home office has them wrapped up in an $8.0 billion dollar takeover.

So really, it's not "where you work" so much as "what you do where you work".

Agreed, many of those comments from Shazam are way off, and clear there is no direct experience ... it also could be that not only is Shell wrapped up in a 8.0B takeover but they are also integrating a 4.5B aquisision.

[Language]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I had the same decision to make at year three, through my bias you may be able to guess what direction I went and am glad I did. Nowadays I basically value things ... assets, ideas, contracts, businesses etc and love it.

Do you have to go into finance to become a valuator? I remember someone telling me that they became a valuator and loved it, and their concentration was accounting. If I seem to recall there was also some sort of test you had to pass sort of like the CA exam.

Correct me if I'm way off base, but I'd actually like to learn more about what you do, it seems rather interesting.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Sheva I didn't read every post so this may be a little redundant, but it depends primarily on your interest. After that, here's some tie breakers:

Accounting is dry, regimented, routine work that pays poorly at first. It's easier to get a first job and marketable accross disciplines. Your overall development may be slower but there's a greater probability that you can do very well in the long run. Accountants usually work more hours and need to schedule your life around month/quarter/year ends.

Finance majors end up doing a wide range of things, you can better exercise creativity and be a better 'business person' and develop better commercial acumen. Your success is much more dependant on the quality of your decision making and thought process.

I had the same decision to make at year three, through my bias you may be able to guess what direction I went and am glad I did. Nowadays I basically value things ... assets, ideas, contracts, businesses etc and love it.

You're looking at accounting from a bookkeeping/clerical perspective, which, yeah, you're bang on in that sense.

However, after getting your BComm in Accounting, there's more you can do out there than being an AP clerk or whatever, especially if one persues a CA afterwards (my career path right now).

In 10 months since graduating, as well as during my work terms, I can honestly say that I've never been in any sort of routine, nor has the work been regimented at all (I don't think I'll argue with the dry part, because it can be dry). I've done mostly auditing the last little while, and I would say my experiences doing that have been pretty good - developing analytical/critical thinking skills, seeing how everything in a business fits together, how strategies have or have not worked for a company, etc. I've also been able to see how different types of companies operate, from large public manufacturers, to small family owned companies, to not-for-profit organizations, etc.

There's also more that can be done than just putting together month/quarter/year end statements. I know many accountants that have gone on to become CFO's of companies, business valuators, forensic accountants, etc. I think the possibilities that are given to accountants are pretty wide in variety as well.

I think the main thing, especially in school, is that one group is focused on the future decisions, while the other focuses on the past (so to facilitate future decisions).

[calf]

Originally Posted by leonk19

Do you have to go into finance to become a valuator? I remember someone telling me that they became a valuator and loved it, and their concentration was accounting. If I seem to recall there was also some sort of test you had to pass sort of like the CA exam.

Correct me if I'm way off base, but I'd actually like to learn more about what you do, it seems rather interesting.

There's a few CBV's at my firm, and all have done their CA first - however, I don't believe accounting is the only route to get there.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Shazam, are you even an accountant yourself? Or just relaying anecdotal experiences from your friends? This and a couple of your other posts in this thread are way off the mark.

This is my friend.

Is your friend a designated accountant? CGA, CMA, CA?

CMA.

That makes a big difference in hours worked, how interesting their work is, and of course, how much salary they command. A low level book keeper typically has more 8 to 5 hours. The 70 hours Jake was talking about might have been in reference to articling CA's for which 70 hours during busy season isn't out of the question. But then again the salaries of CA's tend to be higher than the other two.

Um, ok. That's great. I worked about 90 hours this week, and I'm not even an accountant or something. Your point?

CPR uses SAP as it's ERP while Shell uses EnterpriseOne/JDE I believe. You make it sound like CPR is this technological marvel of accounting efficiency, which trust me, it isn't. I'm not doubting that Shell accounting isn't a gong show that has your friend working a few OT hours, but perhaps it's due to the fact that the home office has them wrapped up in an $8.0 billion dollar takeover.

First off, the acquisition isn't even close to being done, seeing as how SHC.TO hasn't been delisted yet. I wouldn't even it call it close to being started, as Shell's BoD are still mulling it over. Seeing as how it's a bit of a lowball offer it may be while before something happens. She has been there for over two years. She works about 10 hours a day. She works weekends during quarter ends and year ends and whenever her boss tells her to. She is forbidden from taking any sort of time off during certain periods (which is more the rule than the exception). She is not compensated for extra hours worked. They are hiring accountants like crazy, because they firmly believe that a bunch of people moving their arms back and forth is more productive than improving processes. Don't get me wrong, she likes her job, but it's way, way more work than what she did at CP Rail.

I am not making it sound like CP Rail is a "technological marvel of accounting efficiency". I simply stated that she worked less at CP Rail, and so did the rest of the team she was on. And a big reason for that was their IT system. Yes indeed, although you may believe that SAP sucks (and yes, it does suck, seeing as how I used to program ABAP. Weeee!), it did help with their productivity. There may be, in fact, people at CP Rail who work longer hours than she did. In fact, I'm positive that's true. Feel better now?

So really, it's not "where you work" so much as "what you do where you work".

Sure, you can tell her that. That'll make her feel better.

She has been an accountant for over ten years now. Believe it or not, there may actually be a point in your career where you get to work normal hours, even as an accountant. And believe it or not, there are actually people in Calgary (and rumour is, other places in the world) that are accountants that get to work normal hours.

So where's your proof?

I don't know what your current work situation is like. But I will tell you that if you work 70 hours a week and keep working 70 hours a week and don't do something about it, you will keep working 70 hours a week and no one is going to stop you from working such inane hours because companies love employees that like to work for free.

And before you ask, I work the hours I do because I own my own company along with two partners. My work directly translates into revenue, so therefore the more work I do and the more quickly I get things done, the more revenue we can generate. It's also because our goal this fiscal year is to break $1million in revenue. Not bad for a company that's three years old.

Agreed, many of those comments from Shazam are way off, and clear there is no direct experience ... it also could be that not only is Shell wrapped up in a 8.0B takeover but they are also integrating a 4.5B aquisision.

Yes, that's right. They've been working on a 4.5B acquisition for over two years. I'll be sure to tell her that. She'll get a good laugh from that.

And like I said before, they are not working on the takeover. Why would they be working on a takeover that hasn't even been approved yet and whose terms will change before the takeover is approved?

As for pay, you guys need to stop thinking that making $100K or whatever it is you think is a "lot of money" is actually a "lot of money". Making $1M a year is a nice sum of money. If you guys knew what some of the execs at some of the companies I worked for made, you would gain a better perspective. Making a middle-class income is not a "lot of money". It is enough for a reasonable existence. It also means that you have to keep working for far longer than I am comfortable with.

If it'll make you guys feel any better, I made a killing on Shell stock. Looks like my Finance B.Comm was good for something. I still regret not getting CNRL.

[Ozy_Flame]

I graduated from Haskayne the same time Calf did. I didn't do either Accounting or Finance, but that was just personal choice.

If you want to be guaranteed a job, go the accounting route. If you want more variety in what you do, go the finance route. I hated both my finance and accounting classes I was forced to take, but while Finance was harder, I enjoyed it more. If you're an alumni from Haskayne, you'll know where I'm coming from saying that FNCE 317 was one of the most difficult courses to ever take.

On a similar note, I just moved down here to Auckland, New Zealand. There's LOTS of accounting work... and that's about it. So, I'm gainfully unemployed right now (well, working at a call centre, I might as well be unemployed). There's demand for ACCT work all over.

BTW, enjoy the snow, fellow Calgarians. This business student is going to the beach tommorrow... and the next day.... and the next day....

[Sample00]

My thought process on this would be to finish your BComm add whatever major you want to it and then go take some practical courses to add to it.
I took the Investment Funds in Canada course and then the Canadian Securities Course. I also started on the path to the Certified Financial Planners program.
Using these hands on courses can help if you want to go into the Investment Business or self employment etc. I find them to be more practical and are the types of courses that can actually earn you some good money.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by calf

You're looking at accounting from a bookkeeping/clerical perspective, which, yeah, you're bang on in that sense.

However, after getting your BComm in Accounting, there's more you can do out there than being an AP clerk or whatever, especially if one persues a CA afterwards (my career path right now).

In 10 months since graduating, as well as during my work terms, I can honestly say that I've never been in any sort of routine, nor has the work been regimented at all (I don't think I'll argue with the dry part, because it can be dry). I've done mostly auditing the last little while, and I would say my experiences doing that have been pretty good - developing analytical/critical thinking skills, seeing how everything in a business fits together, how strategies have or have not worked for a company, etc. I've also been able to see how different types of companies operate, from large public manufacturers, to small family owned companies, to not-for-profit organizations, etc.

There's also more that can be done than just putting together month/quarter/year end statements. I know many accountants that have gone on to become CFO's of companies, business valuators, forensic accountants, etc. I think the possibilities that are given to accountants are pretty wide in variety as well.

I think the main thing, especially in school, is that one group is focused on the future decisions, while the other focuses on the past (so to facilitate future decisions).

Agreed, I should have said you are best to move on to a designation afterwards.