[PGT] Flames stomp the Wild 5-1

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Karl

Regarding the bolded part. What??? With all due respect, that seems far fetched to me at best. Way too far fetched.

I mean, why would (or should) anyone want to give us a 2nd rounder for a guy who looks done, unless we're talking about a GM taking stupid pills or living in the past and thinking Wideman's still more than what he is right now?? Try more like a 5th or 6th rounder, if that.

Wideman has about as much NHL game left as David Jones at this point and Jones is nowhere to be seen in any league anywhere as we speak. I'll be shocked if Wideman gets anything more than a PTO and survives that.

I'd say it's way more likely Wideman ends up like Jones next year than getting a 2nd round pick at the TDL.

Dim Jim Benning is still employed. So........2nd rounder coming up!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

How about Kulak with Brodie please.

That's a defensive nightmare IMO. Brodie was more physical last night but srtill gets dominated in that respect by bigger forwards. Kulak just isn't good in his own zone. He's not ready for second pairing. He can't maintain a 3rd pairing spot.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's a defensive nightmare IMO. Brodie was more physical last night but srtill gets dominated in that respect by bigger forwards. Kulak just isn't good in his own zone. He's not ready for second pairing. He can't maintain a 3rd pairing spot.

Brodie is fine playing the right side and Kulak has trouble dragging Jokipakka around, but is fine when paired with someone competent

[Bingo]

man the last thing I want to do is defend Dennis Wideman ...

I just don't think the Flames see Kulak and Jokipakka as better options on a team where they can't acquire someone better or risk losing them in the expansion draft. I'm sure they don't like Wideman and see his issues, but they don't have another option right now.

His worth? My 2nd was a guess, but I do think many are overlooking the parity issue and how few sellers there are on the market. Add that to the same expansion issue where teams need help on D and don't want to lose the asset in June for nothing and a guy with experience that "can" play in the top four may have more value than you think.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Brodie is fine playing the right side and Kulak has trouble dragging Jokipakka around, but is fine when paired with someone competent

We honestly don't know if Brodie would look better on the right side this season, so we should stop assuming it would be just fine. He's had noticeably poor decision making and has not been reading the ice particularly well. He's also not skating nearly as well as he normally does, and sometimes his effort level is pretty putrid.

Brodie is having a bad year. People are going to have to get their heads around that fact.

As for Kulak, he's looked pretty sketchy at times even in limited minutes. Hardly better than Jokipakka who you claimed he was "dragging around" (have they even played together for any length of time?). He's got potential, but I wouldn't say he's earned 2nd pairing minutes anytime soon. If anything you move Engelland up to try and stabilize Brodie and put the veteran Wideman with either of the young guys. Anything else is probably going to be an exposed pair.

[GioforPM]

Wideman has more points this year than a lot of pretty decent defencemen, without PP time (at least for the last couple months). I don't look at a lot of fancy stats. His +/- is 0 FWIW (I know, crappy stat) which is middle of the pack obviously. I think he garners more than a lot of you suppose. His salary is a drag on a trade, but that can be dealt with.

Is he worth less than what Calgary got for Glencross? I bet he is more valuable than Glencross turned out to be for the Caps.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

We honestly don't know if Brodie would look better on the right side this season, so we should stop assuming it would be just fine. He's had noticeably poor decision making and has not been reading the ice particularly well. He's also not skating nearly as well as he normally does, and sometimes his effort level is pretty putrid.

Brodie is having a bad year. People are going to have to get their heads around that fact.

As for Kulak, he's looked pretty sketchy at times even in limited minutes. Hardly better than Jokipakka who you claimed he was "dragging around" (have they even played together for any length of time?). He's got potential, but I wouldn't say he's earned 2nd pairing minutes anytime soon. If anything you move Engelland up to try and stabilize Brodie and put the veteran Wideman with either of the young guys. Anything else is probably going to be an exposed pair.

This. I don't know why so many think "put Brodie on the right and all will be well". Kulak started OK, but he hasn't had a good game over his last starts - not one. And that was playing with Engelland IIRC, not Jokipaaka.

[Dr. Pepper]

Gif Bomb!

[killer_carlson]

1). I'd love to see the Flames somehow add that Frolin kid from the wild. He seems like a real gamer.

2) i'm tired of our #6 dmen. When is it time to give a prospect a substantial run of games? I'd like to see Andersson or Kylington

3) I think Engellend will fetch an awful lot at the deadline. He had a great game.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Karl

I'd say it's way more likely Wideman ends up like Jones next year than getting a 2nd round pick at the TDL.

So… Wideman for a 6th + a 38-year-old scrub looking to play out the string? Done and done!

(And I don't consider it out of the question that Treliving could wizard-mode a 2nd out of some GM. Look what he got for Glencross, who was also out of the league the next year.)

[FBI]

Seems like we need a new thread and poll about what Wideman could fetch us.
Bingo says 2nd, I'm guessing that's the very high end of the spectrum. I personally would take ANYTHING for him, i.e. conditional 7th for 2019. I very much think it would be addition by subtraction.

[killer_carlson]

Wideman is worth more than a 7th - especially as the impact of his contract decreases closer to the deadline.

I think he's worth a late 3rd or a 4th, but if we retain half of his salary (and cap hit) he's worth a better third or a conditional 2nd.

The guy still eats up minutes on a nightly basis. You need guys like him around.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by FacePaint

Anyone figure out what the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty was for?

He was sticking up for a teammate well well after the whistle. I can't remember who or the exact incident but I was happy that Bouma went after a guy after his teammate was the victim of somewhat sketchy antics.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I echo Bingo's post about Wideman.

I would also like to add that for the majority of games this season, he has been effective. He has mostly out-played Brodie on the 2nd pairing, and has had games where he has out-played Giordano and Hamilton. He has also had absolutely terrible games as well.

The only option available that isn't a downgrade (imo) is to switch him and Engelland. Jokipakka and Kulak are not capable of playing top 4 minutes outside of maybe a good game or two.

Wideman may indeed no longer be a top 4 defenceman, but he is the most competent by far out of Jokipakka, Kulak and Wotherspoon.

He becomes much more palatable when you realize that the alternatives being suggested can't consistently keep their heads above water on the bottom pairing vs easier match ups, lower minutes and more than likely easier zone starts.

Wideman is a stop-gap, and one that usually is 'fine' and sometimes 'poor'. Hopefully this off-season the Flames can find a way to obtain a clear upgrade and finally solidify their top 4.

[Insufficient Funds]

I think some people are underestimating the importance and value of having defensive depth come playoff time. I'm thinking specifically about cup contenders not the Flames.

I don't think it's unreasonable to shoot for a 2nd (maybe settle for a 3rd) for Wideman. As others have brought up, there's not a lot out there in the way of defensive help this year with so many teams still thinking they have a chance. BT has shown to be very good to date on managing expiring assets as a whole, so I wouldn't discount that ability.

I would be surprised if the Flames did nothing with him and kept him. Now wouldn't that suck.

[Galakanokis]

Wideman's foot speed gets him into trouble and that amplifies his decision making in a negative way. For the most part I believe he has been fine but he is just to damn slow to play meaning full minutes and not be good for a few gaffs. He's a wily veteran and that gives him the edge over Kulak and Jokipakka who are still prone to young mistakes. The only thing that bugs me is that no one else has really been tried with Brodie. I am not sure why they haven't tried him on the right side with one of the younger guys just to see what happens.

The 4/5 spot is definitely a weakness right now. Imagine how screwed the Flames would be if Engelland wasn't playing some damn fine hockey right now.

[getoverit]

I predict CP server will break down when Wideman gets extended LMAO. jk.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

We honestly don't know if Brodie would look better on the right side this season, so we should stop assuming it would be just fine. He's had noticeably poor decision making and has not been reading the ice particularly well. He's also not skating nearly as well as he normally does, and sometimes his effort level is pretty putrid.

Brodie is having a bad year. People are going to have to get their heads around that fact.

You're right insomuch as we can't actually know, but I see no reason not to try it. We can all agree he is having a bad year.
Why?
What's changed. New coach/system. Change of side played. Change of partner. Perceived personal issues.
Could be any of the above issues or maybe others too. Let him him back on his preferred side and cross that one off the list.

[FanIn80]

At this point, Wideman is in "addition by subtraction" territory.

[TheScorpion]

The thing about Wideman is that he's 33. You know what you're going to get.

However, with Jokipakka and Kulak, they're 25 and 23. Right now, they aren't great options outside of the third pairing, but they still have potential and upside. Jokipakka's game last night was one of his best of the season -- he was excellent. It's just maintaining consistency that will be the challenge for them.