[News] Flames re-assign Irving, recall Taylor

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Perhaps the organization is confident they can sign ramo? Perhaps they know kipper is coming back next year? The doomsday attitude seems premature given all we don't know. What are the devils plans when Brodeur is done?

It's not a doomsday attitude, it's legitimate criticism of that lack of good management endemic of this organization for the last 3-4 years.

[dino7c]

you don't need to develop goal tenders...you find a team with two guys that could be #1 and snag one of them

[Dion]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

What else do you want, what else could a succession plan be other than a list of possible names?

My question is why did we wait till Kiprusoff was injured before we started evaluating our prospects. First Irving and now comes Taylor. If we weren't playing Kiprusoff 70+ games a year we'd already have a handle on what Irving can do.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Seriously, we have a 36 year old starting goalie, who *shockingly* got injured (as older players tend to do) and we had absolutely ZERO depth ready to come in and stop the gap.

Then, we type out a list of the greenest prospects and some dude in Siberia, to say, oh don't worry about it, everything's fine. Doing a great job!

Great plan. Really, just great. That's a plan Kevin Lowe would be proud of.

Again so what's the alternative? Yeah ideally they would have a guy like Schneider or Rask in the wings - or Bernier - but those guys are rare. And guess what - they were drafted in the first round - but not all first round goalies work out.

Take a look around the NHL and you'll find that teams got their #1 goalies in all sorts of ways. Off the top of my head
Anderson - traded for late in his career
Hiller - signed from Europe (I think)
Rinne - mid round pick that spent a lot of time in the minors
Halak - trade
Price/Ward/Fleury - all first round picks. Price/Fleury very high
Tampa guy (name escapes me) - trade
Mike Smith - trade
Varlamov - trade
CBJ - trade

On and on and on. Teams can find #1 goalies in all sorts of ways. Rarely do they have a guy graduate from back-up to become the #1.

So what do you want from the Flames? They have a number of guys in the system that could be #1s eventually and a guy that could be a starter a year from now. If not - they probably sign or acquire someone

By why are we panicking about it today - because a guy who couldn't hack it in the NHL has been sent down?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Dion

My question is why did we wait till Kiprusoff was injured before we started evaluating our prospects. First Irving and now comes Taylor. If we weren't playing Kiprusoff 70+ games a year we'd already have a handle on what Irving can do.

Because each year the team has pee'd the bed in the first half putting them in a position where they couldn't afford to play the back-up.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Dion

My question is why did we wait till Kiprusoff was injured before we started evaluating our prospects. First Irving and now comes Taylor. If we weren't playing Kiprusoff 70+ games a year we'd already have a handle on what Irving can do.

This is probably my biggest complaint in the handling of Irving. By now Irving should have had enough NHL starts that he would at least be an RFA at the end of this season. I'm still not convinced he won't end up being at least an NHL backup at some point, and we could have used a couple more years to develop him.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It's not a doomsday attitude, it's legitimate criticism of that lack of good management endemic of this organization for the last 3-4 years.

Based on a series of assumptions you have about the goalies available, whether Kipper is returning, and whether or not the team can sign Ramo.

Bottom line - when Kipper moves on SOMEONE will be a #1 goalie for the Flames, and they will almost for sure be worse than Kipper.

Such is life when you move on from an elite tender.

But honestly people are clamouring for a re-build so much - why does it matter if it takes the team 3-5 years to find the next great goalie? They aren't going to win a cup in that window anyways.

[Young-Sneezy]

Originally Posted by Dion

My question is why did we wait till Kiprusoff was injured before we started evaluating our prospects. First Irving and now comes Taylor. If we weren't playing Kiprusoff 70+ games a year we'd already have a handle on what Irving can do.

Because we have sucked so badly that we needed him to get us the few wins we did. are you daft? or just trying to bait people?

Leland didnt make sense from jump, and people pumped his tires because its ridiculous to sit behind your goalie and say "no, this guy sucks."

well, guess what, he sucks. he sucked in the american league this year, and he isnt playing well in the NHL. Yes, he made some great saves, but we DONT have the time to sit here and say ok well leland you #### around for an entire season and we'll just rack up losses while you let in goals covering up the puck (hello Morrow).

Taylor was the starter, he took the job from leland, he deserves to actually get a shot, and if he ####s up, let MacDonald get in there and clean up some messes.

[Roof-Daddy]

Pretty embarrassing that this organization hasn't developed one single capable NHL goalie during Kippers reign here. Irving was supposed to be that guy I guess, but he scares the heck out of me between the pipes right now. So here we are, on the potential eve of life after kipper, with nobody ready to take the reigns, and nobody ready to even properly fill in for kipper while he's hurt.

Sure hope Ramo comes over and works out, or this might be a disaster in the making.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Again so what's the alternative? Yeah ideally they would have a guy like Schneider or Rask in the wings - or Bernier - but those guys are rare. And guess what - they were drafted in the first round - but not all first round goalies work out.

Take a look around the NHL and you'll find that teams got their #1 goalies in all sorts of ways. Off the top of my head
Anderson - traded for late in his career
Hiller - signed from Europe (I think)
Rinne - mid round pick that spent a lot of time in the minors
Halak - trade
Price/Ward/Fleury - all first round picks. Price/Fleury very high
Tampa guy (name escapes me) - trade
Mike Smith - trade
Varlamov - trade
CBJ - trade

On and on and on. Teams can find #1 goalies in all sorts of ways. Rarely do they have a guy graduate from back-up to become the #1.

So what do you want from the Flames? They have a number of guys in the system that could be #1s eventually and a guy that could be a starter a year from now. If not - they probably sign or acquire someone

By why are we panicking about it today - because a guy who couldn't hack it in the NHL has been sent down?

The alternative would be to spend about 1.5 on a backup, that would get you a decent older player who could take on 25 games a year, which could conceivably both extend and improve Kipper's last few years and would give the management the ability and desire to bring up the rookie you think might be the one earlier.

[dino7c]

The team knew Irving sucked...they are in a tight cap spot and didn't have space to waste on a backup they didn't plan on playing but now Kipper is injured so they are trying to find someone to take the ball and run with it

[Tinordi]

I'm no panicking. I'm just saying that we clearly didn't have a plan for our goaltending situation this season and likely not next season. Sure we'll sign someone as I said previous or we'll trade for someone like I suggested in Enroth. What I'm more upset about is this over-reliance on Kiprusoff over the past 7 seasons and zero attention paid to our goaltending depth and development. Well now that's biting us in the ass.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Based on a series of assumptions you have about the goalies available, whether Kipper is returning, and whether or not the team can sign Ramo.

Bottom line - when Kipper moves on SOMEONE will be a #1 goalie for the Flames, and they will almost for sure be worse than Kipper.

Such is life when you move on from an elite tender.

But honestly people are clamouring for a re-build so much - why does it matter if it takes the team 3-5 years to find the next great goalie? They aren't going to win a cup in that window anyways.

I don't care that the replacement for Kipper will be worse. I know they'll be worse, that's fine.

What I take huge issue with is your final sentence. You need always need good goaltending regardless of whether you're rebuilding or not. Your young players need to develop with confidence in their netminder, they need to feel that they can win any given night. At the same time, you also need to be bringing in goaltending talent and depth that will be able to conceivably turn into home grown starting goalies, crucial to Cup wins.

[dino7c]

most teams count on their #1 guy when it comes to goal tending. Would be nice if Irving could have held the fort for a couple weeks but he wasn't up to it so somebody else gets a shot. Stupid to worry about two years from now a million things could happen between now and then

[t0rrent98]

Minus Fleury/Price, the Flames need to draft more goalies from Europe. Can't really wait to see how Ramo pans out here as a Flames.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Well, might as well look at Taylor. He deserves it for sure.

We'll get a look at MacDonald, if he sucks, put him on Waivers and re-call Irving. No big deal.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

most teams count on their #1 guy when it comes to goal tending. Would be nice if Irving could have held the fort for a couple weeks but he wasn't up to it so somebody else gets a shot. Stupid to worry about two years from now a million things could happen between now and then

most teams give their nos 1 at least 20 games off a year Calgary is the only team ( I think) that expects its nos 1 to cover over 70 games

[Bertuzzied]

I wish Leland would just go sign in Europe so we dont' have to read this garbage put forth by his apologists on here anymore.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I'm no panicking. I'm just saying that we clearly didn't have a plan for our goaltending situation this season and likely not next season. Sure we'll sign someone as I said previous or we'll trade for someone like I suggested in Enroth. What I'm more upset about is this over-reliance on Kiprusoff over the past 7 seasons and zero attention paid to our goaltending depth and development. Well now that's biting us in the ass.

The plan was to ride Kipper in a short season. The injury was obviously not anticipated. But is it any different for any other teams? Of course someone will bring up Vancouver and their 2 goalies, but let's not forget that had they actually traded Luongo and Schneider got injured they'd be in the same situation as us.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

most teams give their nos 1 at least 20 games off a year calgary is the only team ( i think) that expects its nos 1 to cover over 70 games

nyr