Houses being stolen via Title Fraud

[GordonBlue]

In Toronto now, but you know this is going to spread.

How organized crime has mortgaged or sold at least 30 GTA homes without owners' knowledge

Future of title insurance could be at risk if this real estate fraud trend continues

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...edge-1.6719978

In most of these cases, the real owner and the buyer are protected from most of the losses incurred through the fraud by having title insurance.

But with title transfer and mortgage fraud claims skyrocketing, title insurer John Rider worries about the sustainability of providing this coverage in the long-term.
"We went from zero of those claims to now many dozens," said Rider, senior vice president of Chicago Title Insurance Company in Canada.



How thieves stole a Toronto condo and sold it for $970K
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ondo-1.6720439



What we know about 'stand-ins' used by organized crime to sell homes without owner's knowledge
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...onto-1.6723441



Toronto police seek public's help after house sold without owners' consent
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...tion-1.6704719

A Toronto police spokesperson declined to provide additional information about the case when CBC Toronto followed up.

The spokesperson said the force can't provide any advice on how the public can protect themselves from a fraud of this nature, but said this is not the victims' fault.



How to protect yourself from real-estate title fraud
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...raud-1.6711615

[nik-]

My advice in how to help prevent this would be to live in the property you own. Or at least the same country.

[SutterBrother]

The first two of these I read were of a Chinese woman who owned a million dollar apartment, but is living in China (so it's vacant) and of a couple who "left Canada for work".

This feels symptomatic of foreign wealth using real estate in Canada as an investment, and driving regular Canadians out of the market in places like Toronto and Vancouver.

They are victims no doubt, and didn't deserve this. But perhaps if you lived in your home, this sort of fraud would be less likely to occur?

Is the solution simply occupancy?

[sureLoss]

So if I am understanding this scam correctly, it probably only succeeds if the property is vacant for a significant period of time?

Otherwise would be hard to have a mortgage inspection or potential buyers looking at the property when there is someone other than the scammers living in the house.

[Slava]

Another solution is to just have a HELOC (open, but not used) against the property.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Slava

Another solution is to just have a HELOC (open, but not used) against the property.

I was going to say this as well. I'm not entirely sure how well it works as a safeguard but I remember hearing about title theft about ten years ago and the advice at that time was to have a HELOC on the property.

[Fuzz]

What does title insurance cost?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

What does title insurance cost?

IIRC about $1/$1000.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I was going to say this as well. I'm not entirely sure how well it works as a safeguard but I remember hearing about title theft about ten years ago and the advice at that time was to have a HELOC on the property.

That advice is likely recommended by banks who know giving people access to credit means credit gets used. So it could just be a fear based sales pitch even if it is correct advice.

[Fuzzy14]

Welcome to the area of law with the greatest level of liability for lawyers.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GGG

That advice is likely recommended by banks who know giving people access to credit means credit gets used. So it could just be a fear based sales pitch even if it is correct advice.

Well it's not only that though. It's that you'd pay say $1000 for the title insurance policy (on a million dollar home) and the HELOC sitting there unused is basically zero. Yes, you need some self-control and can't use that LOC "just because", but it's not the worst option. And really, this is a problem for houses that are free and clear, so it's a different demographic than just "anyone with a house".

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well it's not only that though. It's that you'd pay say $1000 for the title insurance policy (on a million dollar home) and the HELOC sitting there unused is basically zero. Yes, you need some self-control and can't use that LOC "just because", but it's not the worst option. And really, this is a problem for houses that are free and clear, so it's a different demographic than just "anyone with a house".

I'd think the demographic that could pay off a mortgage is also financially restrained enough to avoid dipping into a HELOC for fun.

[81MC]

24yo student+’more than $800,000’+’2017’. Wait, so she was 18 when she bought nearly a million dollar property in a foreign nation? Doesn’t live in Canada, nor use the property to house anyone, and CBC calls it ‘her home’. Mmmmkay.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

The first two of these I read were of a Chinese woman who owned a million dollar apartment, but is living in China (so it's vacant) and of a couple who "left Canada for work".

This feels symptomatic of foreign wealth using real estate in Canada as an investment, and driving regular Canadians out of the market in places like Toronto and Vancouver.

They are victims no doubt, and didn't deserve this. But perhaps if you lived in your home, this sort of fraud would be less likely to occur?

Is the solution simply occupancy?

It obviously would be much less likely in cases where homeowners are living in the home, but saying it's symptomatic of 'foreign wealth' doing things that harm 'regular Canadians' is just inserting separate grievances and bias into the topic.

It it can happen with anyone who is renting a property and not there to watch it all the time. One of the cases reported recently was of an elderly homeowner who went into a care home and was renting his property. The fraudsters rented the property using fake identities and instead of moving in just put it on the market and used their access to show it to potential buyers. Canadians who own a home but go overseas for work are also by no means necessarily 'foreign wealth'.

A similar thing is happening here in Vancouver with parking spots where vacant parking spots in residential buildings have had usage rights 'sold' or rented by people who don't own the space. Is the problem that those owners just don't have cars, and everything would be fixed if they just had a car and parked it there?

The problem is the criminals themselves, lack of awareness of this risk by victims, and knowledge/use of measures to prevent it.

[nik-]

Certainly you have no bias.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Robin Hoods out here robbing hoods.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'd think the demographic that could pay off a mortgage is also financially restrained enough to avoid dipping into a HELOC for fun.

But what about the money launderers?

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by nik-

Certainly you have no bias.

Please, do go on, and be specific.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

A similar thing is happening here in Vancouver with parking spots where vacant parking spots in residential buildings have had usage rights 'sold' or rented by people who don't own the space. Is the problem that those owners just don't have cars, and everything would be fixed if they just had a car and parked it there?

This happened to me last summer. I was looking for a parking spot around the PNE and someone offered to rent me their street parking for $25. It was marked for residents only. They didn't give me a decal or anything after I paid them, which I should have known would be an issue.

A few hours later when I went to my car, there were 2 really old people standing next to my car yelling at me in a language that I didn't understand with their hand out saying "money" over and over. They were literally trying to prevent me from getting in the car and when I got in, the old man got into the back seat with my kid and the lady was standing in front of my car with her hands on the hood. I was trying to tell them that I already paid someone else for the spot. Anyway, I had to pull the man out and drove away with the old lady jumping out of the way. My poor kid was traumatized for a while after that.

For anyone in Vancouver, do not fall for this scam.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

This happened to me last summer. I was looking for a parking spot around the PNE and someone offered to rent me their street parking for $25. It was marked for residents only. They didn't give me a decal or anything after I paid them, which I should have known would be an issue.

A few hours later when I went to my car, there were 2 really old people standing next to my car yelling at me in a language that I didn't understand with their hand out saying "money" over and over. They were literally trying to prevent me from getting in the car and when I got in, the old man got into the back seat with my kid and the lady was standing in front of my car with her hands on the hood. I was trying to tell them that I already paid someone else for the spot. Anyway, I had to pull the man out and drove away with the old lady jumping out of the way. My poor kid was traumatized for a while after that.

For anyone in Vancouver, do not fall for this scam.

$25 at least is not that much, and neither is the harm of the use of a spot for the length of a visit to the PNE. Crazy to jump in someone's car like that, but both you and them are victims of some jackass. That old couple is probably dealing with that all the time, which must be upsetting. Or, who knows, maybe they were the fraudsters pretending that they owned the spot haha

In the condo building where one of my friends lives someone had been tracking the empty spaces in the underground parking and selling them for blocks of six months at a time for thousands of dollars, only for some of the people who paid for those spaces to end up with their cars towed when the real owners found out.