[PGT] Predators defeat Flames 5-1, Dec. 2nd

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Nobody should be telling you how to enjoy your fandom of the Flames. Cheer for losses hoping for a better draft pick and more wins in the season to come? Sure. Go do that if you want. Not only is there nothing wrong with it, but it makes complete sense.


Just understand that coming on a forum and posting that you hope that the Flames lose tonight and every night is really annoying. It isn't like nobody understands WHY you are cheering for losses, but it still rather tasteless to openly cheer for losses. Not hard to understand why there is push-back, right? You really have to be a troll not to understand that.


I do think the math works out with respect to trading the vets early. If the Flames manage to rebound and end up finishing 20th overall, I do not think they can move up into the top 3 by including their first round pick plus every single asset that came back in a Kadri + Andersson + Coleman trade. Teams just want quality at the top, period. I would be really upset if the Flames traded down to 12th after having the 1st overall pick, almost regardless of the return. So yes, the math works out - it is more important to ensure a bottom 3 finish than worrying about the returns for the vets.


However, the Flames are LAST with these vets. Seems to me that Conroy can be very patient, no? What are we afraid of here right now? Flames are 32nd right now - and just got whooped by the last place team. I think we can just ignore any angst that we may have about ensuring the team gets gutted enough to finish last - it is there now. Heck, maybe if they trade these vets out, it will inject too much youth into the team, and they really start out-performing expectations again, right?


Things are moving in the right direction. Your cheers - either for wins or for losses - are doing squat. No need to go and proclaim that we need to cheer for losses - that's just incredibly annoying. No point in telling people that they are wrong for cheering for losses, and that they are 'not true fans' if they do - that's incredibly silly too. Just a lot of silliness going around lately, but it is understandable. This is the first time that I have ever remembered the Flames being in last place. New territory, and we aren't the 'pros' and dealing with like those greasy fans up north are. Those guys are experts at this. We are all noobs, so let's just have a little patience with one another.

I agree with this. Cheer as you want, but it's a bit obnoxious to come into game threads and beat this horse daily when they're losing. I'm happy to see it in the big picture, but it's far from a fun experience to see the team losing almost nightly. Not having emotional investment in the team is a weird/difficult place to be.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kidder

But this is why there’s literally no better time to do a proper tear down rebuild right now.

I know multiple people with season tickets who have acquired them recently simply because they want to ensure they have dibs for the new arena.

They are not forgoing their tickets because the team sucks. They want to be ticket holders in the new building.

So this year, next year, and year one of new rink.

Three seasons where ticket holders are locked in no matter the results of the team.

And I know people that gave up paying $16K per season for a couple tickets because they suck right now and will for a few seasons. They might buy back in if and when they are better, but until then they are saving their money. Three seasons where those people aren't buying any tickets.

[sch19lks]

Was there any explanation given for the face off violation penalty?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So we've got people in favour of tanking saying they've checked out until there's a superstar on the roster. It doesn't take much imagination to think of a fan who says "I am getting rid of my seasons tickets until they are trying to win again". Which I think is what the messaging about not using the word "rebuild" is all about - trying to avoid fans doing that. It may be dumb on their part, but not exactly beyong a guy like Edwards to try and gaslight that way.

Yeah, totally fair and agree. I’ve thought of that before too.

I just don’t care. Been a fan my whole life, obviously not as passionate as some, and that’s okay. Want the team to win. Want my son to experience what I got to experience in 2004 because it was so much fun. Don’t think that happens, or should I say the odds of that happening are so low without bottoming out and getting the superstar.

Just tired of the same old same old strategy for the Flames. I’m not sure if they are actually rebuilding or not here. Despite all the moves people have correctly pointed out, I don’t understand the messaging from leadership. I think I might be more interested if they admitted to a rebuild but you’re right to be skeptical for what that might mean in terms of the dollars and cents for the team and selling tickets.

There are other factors too. I’m quite disgusted by the city paying for their arena. It’s gross.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And I know people that gave up paying $16K per season for a couple tickets because they suck right now and will for a few seasons. They might buy back in if and when they are better, but until then they are saving their money. Three seasons where those people aren't buying any tickets.

I have been through rebuilds with some of my other favorite teams. I will tell you that it is a lot easier to buy season tickets or game packages to see a young team with a couple of potential stars that is on the upswing vs. a team where your marquis players are veterans and you're still on the decline.

When you're a bad team I'm not sure it really matters how bad you are. Fans want hope and light at the end of the tunnel and some stars to be excited about.

If Murray's big thing is ticket sales, the sooner he gets to the bottom and can and a star or two, the better off he will be. Coronato is a nice player but I don't see kids skating in community rinks wearing his jersey.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have been through rebuilds with some of my other favorite teams. I will tell you that it is a lot easier to buy season tickets or game packages to see a young team with a couple of potential stars that is on the upswing vs. a team where your marquis players are veterans and you're still on the decline.

When you're a bad team I'm not sure it really matters how bad you are. Fans want hope and light at the end of the tunnel and some stars to be excited about.

If Murray's big thing is ticket sales, the sooner he gets to the bottom and can and a star or two, the better off he will be. Coronato is a nice player but I don't see kids skating in community rinks wearing his jersey.

At the end of the day, it's an entertainment business. Since Johnny and Tkachuk left, for a variety of reasons, the Flames have had one of the NHL's least entertaining products.

I'd imagine selling Edwards on the intangible value of 'brand' would be a difficult sell (and god forbid Maloney delivers it), but this franchise has slipped into indifferent territory in this province and probably irrelevant nationally.

I'd hate to see a poll right now of Albertans (hell, even Calgarians) that cheer for the Flames vs Oilers. History plays a big part of that, but there's been significant damage over the past few seasons where you're just not excited to see the product the Flames are putting forward. Most would agree it's not a tinkering situation; the Flames brand/entertainment/product needs a massive overhaul.

So no, I don't see much risk for some season ticket holder turnover in the short term. I think the bigger risk is letting this wave of indifference carry on much longer, because the consequences are much more dire. The franchise needs someone who will sell tickets and get us excited about maybe winning a cup again.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

For people who actually watch and enjoy the games, Andersson is a fan favourite. I personally wouldn’t read anything more than wanting to keep Andersson into wanting to keep Andersson, so the position that wanting to keep a fan favourite must mean they don’t want to trade any vets seems strange to me. Do you have some actual instances of people saying the latter you could reference?

Are you suggesting that losses fill you with joy? I think most people accept or suffer the losses, knowing there is a worthwhile consolation prize at the end. I suspect your view is more popular with people who solely follow the team and read text summaries and stat lines, since seeing a loss show up on a box score is quite a bit more bland than actually sitting through one.

Well if we need to keep Andersson because he's a fan favorite, the logical conclusion to that is we also keep any player of any trade value because he's a fan favorite. Kadri and Coleman are certainly favorites of many Flames fans.

No one has said the words "don't trade any vets" explicitly, but it's not hard to pick up on the vibe when you read what's been said around here over the past number of weeks. For instance, after Kadri scored that SO goal the other night, there were people saying we need to keep him because he's so good.

No, losses don't fill me with joy, and I don't know where you got that idea from. What does fill me with joy is the thought of finally getting some elite players through the draft, something this team desperately needs. But I'm fully aware that getting elite players is only one step of a proper rebuild, and there's plenty of other things that go into it.

These days I don't watch games start to finish. I watch bits and pieces of games. So no I don't suffer as much during a season like this as you do, or others who watch every second of every game. I commend your dedication, but I prefer to take the long view on a situation like this. The next few years are going to be rough and I'm at peace with that. It's up to each fan to decide for themselves how they are going to take in these rebuilding seasons.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have been through rebuilds with some of my other favorite teams. I will tell you that it is a lot easier to buy season tickets or game packages to see a young team with a couple of potential stars that is on the upswing vs. a team where your marquis players are veterans and you're still on the decline.

When you're a bad team I'm not sure it really matters how bad you are. Fans want hope and light at the end of the tunnel and some stars to be excited about.

If Murray's big thing is ticket sales, the sooner he gets to the bottom and can and a star or two, the better off he will be. Coronato is a nice player but I don't see kids skating in community rinks wearing his jersey.

It is way easier to buy tickets, Flames will see a significant drop in ticket sales this year and next. Not sure it will get to the glory days of when Murray first owned the team and they would announce 13,000 but there were maybe 9,000 in the rink and you could move from the 300’s to anywhere in the 100’s with ease in the first intermission. Doubt they will have to bring back the 5 dollar tickets if you buy a 12 pack of coke at Safeway but those vouchers during those years made NHL hockey quite affordable.

Despite knowing this market and the history of this market Murray still seems committed to a rebuild so I guess that is a positive.

[Teroy]

I don't get to watch all games because of restrictions here in BC. I only watch a few streaming because I'm not one to watch on a small screen. I'm no longer a fanatical Flames fan because I'm tired of watching a team fighting to make the playoffs so Edwards can make a few more buck. Although, I still enjoy a win. I'm hopeful of getting a good draft pick. I don't have another favourite team. I don't have a problem with those who cheer for a loss. I was fortunate to have season tickets when we won back in 1989. I hope to experience that again before I pass. At age 80, that might be a stretch.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Well if we need to keep Andersson because he's a fan favorite, the logical conclusion to that is we also keep any player of any trade value because he's a fan favorite. Kadri and Coleman are certainly favorites of many Flames fans.

No one has said the words "don't trade any vets" explicitly, but it's not hard to pick up on the vibe when you read what's been said around here over the past number of weeks. For instance, after Kadri scored that SO goal the other night, there were people saying we need to keep him because he's so good.

It's just attachment to a certain player. You don't want to see a certain player go because you like him even though deep down you know trading him is probably the right thing to do.

The same person who doesn't want Andersson to go might be fine with Kadri and Coleman being traded.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by sch19lks

Was there any explanation given for the face off violation penalty?

you didn't think Hrudey's was adequate?

[Tsawwassen]

Post game links
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...a-498da12f9210
https://www.espn.com/nhl/game/_/game...ames-predators
https://www.espn.com/nhl/recap/_/gameId/401802767
https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/calgar...boxscore-43488
https://deadspin.com/steven-stamkos-...rounce-flames/
https://flamesnation.ca/news/instant...ad-trip-finale