[News] The Athletic - NHL Owner Rankings - Murray Edwards 30th

[dino7c]

Leafs haven't won the cup since 67, should have sold every year...told you so.
Every Canadian team should have been sellers every year since 93

M I RITE...I AM

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Actually looking back I was absolutely right. They should have given him an ultimatum. They would have either re-signed him or maximized value instead of watching him walk. That is objectively true.

No. Because nobody had that information at the time. The only person who had that information without the benefit of hindsight is God himself, and you are not God.

Also you should try sometime having some ideas of your own rather than just condescendingly talking down to people. I never see you much making any pontificating on what the Flames should or shouldn’t do. To then go belittle those that do doesn’t make you look as smart as you think it does.

I don't have ideas of my own on this particular subject because unlike you, I am smart enough to recognize that I don't have enough information to have an informed opinion. I consider the value of playing armchair GM to be precisely the square root of bugger-all. To use your own imaginary record as an armchair GM as grounds to criticize the guy actually doing the job is worth even less than that.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No. Because nobody had that information at the time. The only person who had that information without the benefit of hindsight is God himself, and you are not God.



I don't have ideas of my own on this particular subject because unlike you, I am smart enough to recognize that I don't have enough information to have an informed opinion. I consider the value of playing armchair GM to be precisely the square root of bugger-all.

Lol okay guys. You’re right. This team is amazingly managed good call. And losing Gaudreau to free agency was an excellent decision.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Leafs haven't won the cup since 67, should have sold every year...told you so.
Every Canadian team should have been sellers every year since 93

M I RITE...I AM

If they have pending free agents, no?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I don't have ideas of my own on this particular subject because unlike you, I am smart enough to recognize that I don't have enough information to have an informed opinion. I consider the value of playing armchair GM to be precisely the square root of bugger-all. To use your own imaginary record as an armchair GM as grounds to criticize the guy actually doing the job is worth even less than that.

Do you have ideas on your own about anything?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Do you have ideas on your own about anything?

I certainly do, and I don't waste them on a hockey fan forum.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I certainly do, and I don't waste them on a hockey fan forum.

Lol what?! Okay, have a good night.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Actually looking back I was absolutely right. They should have given him an ultimatum. They would have either re-signed him or maximized value instead of watching him walk. That is objectively true.

Nobody ever knows if a decision will be correct. I was correct then. That doesn’t mean anything to anyone but I present it as a data point that the geniuses of CP are not always right about what they defend and prognosticate.

Also you should try sometime having some ideas of your own rather than just condescendingly talking down to people. I never see you much making any pontificating on what the Flames should or shouldn’t do. To then go belittle those that do doesn’t make you look as smart as you think it does.

The Flames wouldn't have gotten a ransom though.

They would have gotten some combo of a late 1st, worse roster player, and extra picks . B prospect

And then... Who Cares? Would another Zary on the roster right now really matter?

Late 1sts are the most overrated asset in the league. You have a 25% chance of even an NHL regular and it takes 4-5 years to see them materialize

The Flames should have gone more "All In" - But we didn't have all our ammo because BT wasted it over the years!

No team at 111 points was trading their (or close too) best player. That's insanity. By that logic WHY would any other team trade for him knowing he's hitting FA?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Lol okay guys. You’re right. This team is amazingly managed good call.

Nobody said that, but if you have to believe everyone else is a total idiot to feel good about yourself… maybe you should take a look at yourself.

And losing Gaudreau to free agency was an excellent decision.

Losing Gaudreau to free agency wasn't even a decision by the team. It was a decision by GAUDREAU. They call it FREE agency for a reason, because the player is free to choose where he wants to play out of whichever teams are willing to sign him.

Apparently you, like several other CPers, believe Brad Treliving was equipped with a super secret mind-control ray that he could have used to force Gaudreau to put pen to paper, and inexplicably failed to use it. Players, including star players, go to free agency every year. It's not bad decision-making by GMs that makes this happen. It is the way the system is intended to work.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The Flames wouldn't have gotten a ransom though.

They would have gotten some combo of a late 1st, worse roster player, and extra picks . B prospect

And then... Who Cares? Would another Zary on the roster right now really matter?

Late 1sts are the most overrated asset in the league. You have a 25% chance of even an NHL regular and it takes 4-5 years to see them materialize

The Flames should have gone more "All In" - But we didn't have all our ammo because BT wasted it over the years!

No team at 111 points was trading their (or close too) best player. That's insanity. By that logic WHY would any other team trade for him knowing he's hitting FA?

Exactly, Flames are the dumbest team ever for keeping him to UFA...but another team with less points would have traded a ransom for him as a pending UFA

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Lol okay guys. You’re right. This team is amazingly managed good call. And losing Gaudreau to free agency was an excellent decision.

and there it is, goalposts...the mark of someone who is "right"

[dino7c]

It sucks though because only the cup winners will trade for Ras considering he is a UFA...one probelm, who are the cup winners?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The Flames wouldn't have gotten a ransom though.

They would have gotten some combo of a late 1st, worse roster player, and extra picks . B prospect

And then... Who Cares? Would another Zary on the roster right now really matter?

Late 1sts are the most overrated asset in the league. You have a 25% chance of even an NHL regular and it takes 4-5 years to see them materialize

The Flames should have gone more "All In" - But we didn't have all our ammo because BT wasted it over the years!

No team at 111 points was trading their (or close too) best player. That's insanity. By that logic WHY would any other team trade for him knowing he's hitting FA?

That’s not true though. Good teams, well managed teams, like say Carolina or Colorado or Dallas- take risks.

You guys aren’t reading or focusing on what I’m saying. I’m saying you give the guy an ultimatum. Sign by OUR deadline or we’ll trade you.

What this does: takes control of the decision making and timeline. Instead of July 1, it’s now Feb, to sign. If he doesn’t sign, you know his intentions.

What it does for you: gives you the ability to recover assets. Sure, they may not be equivalent to Gaudreau. Sure, they may cost you a chance at the cup that year…

But it’s how you manage a team. You manage over the long-term. Short term calculated risks for long term gains. Not a one year window. Carolina traded for Necas and then IN THE SAME YEAR- even though they had a great team/ still traded Rantanen away because they weren’t confident he would re-sign with them. Did they say- well we have a chance at a Cup this year so have to keep him? No.

Good teams like Boston Carolina or Colorado make good management decisions with their assets. Looking back I was 100% correct. Like, factually. Look at what actually happened. Trading Gaudreau for a 1st and prospects and other stuff would have been better in the long run for the Flames than 1 playoff round win.

You do that same move multiple times you win cups.

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Too bad Murray is only 65. Don't think the flames will ever get another cup with him owning them at this point. Complete tire fire for 30+ years. Feels like 50 years will be the total when this pos is finally no longer the owner!

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

That’s not true though. Good teams, well managed teams, like say Carolina or Colorado or Dallas- take risks.

You guys aren’t reading or focusing on what I’m saying. I’m saying you give the guy an ultimatum. Sign by OUR deadline or we’ll trade you.

What this does: takes control of the decision making and timeline. Instead of July 1, it’s now Feb, to sign. If he doesn’t sign, you know his intentions.

What it does for you: gives you the ability to recover assets. Sure, they may not be equivalent to Gaudreau. Sure, they may cost you a chance at the cup that year…

But it’s how you manage a team. You manage over the long-term. Short term calculated risks for long term gains. Not a one year window. Carolina traded for Necas and then IN THE SAME YEAR- even though they had a great team/ still traded Rantanen away because they weren’t confident he would re-sign with them. Did they say- well we have a chance at a Cup this year so have to keep him? No.

Good teams like Boston Carolina or Colorado make good management decisions with their assets. Looking back I was 100% correct. Like, factually. Look at what actually happened. Trading Gaudreau for a 1st and prospects and other stuff would have been better in the long run for the Flames than 1 playoff round win.

You do that same move multiple times you win cups.

But you were the best team in the NHL. So you threaten JG, He doesn't sign - And then what?

You don't get better by trading him. Sure you get a late 1st and fillers. But then what?

A late first has about a 25% chance of being relevant.

I think most of what the Flames do is poor management. But I don't see a world where a team is the best in the NHL trading their best player for a late 1st and scraps eventually leading to a cup win!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Dude if you’re going to argue they didn’t mismanage Gaudreau then there’s not really a point in discussing anything. That is an absurd and hilarious take.

More absurd and hilarious than telling someone what they can and can't say?

[Jiri Hrdina]

For those saying the Flames made a mistake not signing Johnny an off-season earlier, how large a contract would YOU have offered.
this is a player that coming off seasons of 58 points in 70 games and 49 points in 56 games.
So what's the max you would have offered?
Just saying "they should have signed him" isn't enough. Because we know the Flames tried to. So what would have been the max deal you would have offered given his recent seasons.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Calgary outplayed Vancouver the entire series...its stands to reason if they escaped the first round curse they would have had a good shot similar to the 89 scare. They were certainly a contender that year. Robert Reichel had about 5 posts/crossbars that would have sent the Canucks packing.

lol November 21st 2025 but I am totally over it

I'm very much not over it and that makes me concerned for how my future self will handle the Jays World Series loss this year haha.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For those saying the Flames made a mistake not signing Johnny an off-season earlier, how large a contract would YOU have offered.
this is a player that coming off seasons of 58 points in 70 games and 49 points in 56 games.
So what's the max you would have offered?
Just saying "they should have signed him" isn't enough. Because we know the Flames tried to. So what would have been the max deal you would have offered given his recent seasons.

I'm sure they went back and forth likely in the offseason prior to Johnny's last, but we all know how Treliving liked to lowball his own guys and I tend to think a sensible offer may have got it done and the deal would have ended up a bargain. My issue is that he was still the best forward in the organization and letting him go into the last year of the deal was a risk that the GM was willing to take. It blew up in his face of course. I do hope one day we can get past Treliving talk but the reality is that his work in 2022 was disastrous for the organization and probably more damaging that anything Risebrough or Button did. His work that year has led directly to the Flames being the last place team it is today.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm sure they went back and forth likely in the offseason prior to Johnny's last, but we all know how Treliving liked to lowball his own guys and I tend to think a sensible offer may have got it done and the deal would have ended up a bargain. My issue is that he was still the best forward in the organization and letting him go into the last year of the deal was a risk that the GM was willing to take. It blew up in his face of course. I do hope one day we can get past Treliving talk but the reality is that his work in 2022 was disastrous for the organization and probably more damaging that anything Risebrough or Button did. His work that year has led directly to the Flames being the last place team it is today.

What would a sensible offer have been for a 60-70 point winger?