2018 NHL Draft

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by bax

I would have to think the best tool for evaluating goalies would be to actually watch them play. Assess them on athleticism, flexibility, positioning, etc. Many goalies just need some fine tuning to their game to help reach new levels. So much of the game these days is mental.

Save percentage also doesn't mean much if you're not looking at context. How many games are they playing? What kind of style does their team play? How good are the defenders on that team? Is the team a contender or a walkover? There are a variety of factors that can alter a save percentage.

Just for example:

Goalie A had a .900 SP in 49 games this year.
Goalie B had a .919 SP in 29 games this year.

Who do you want? Carey Price or Darcy Kuemper.

I get what you're saying, that's why I said their entire junior career numbers need to avg above .910 for ME to feel they are worth taking a chance on. I'm not saying 1 year, or 25 games vs 45 games. I'm specifically speaking in terms of a goalie with 3-4 years in Junior/College and looking at their save % as a whole. Perhaps I did a poor job indicating that in its entirety from the get go.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

That probably militates in favour of the strategy of not picking goalies high unless you have a really good reason to (Samsonov, Vasilevsky being examples of a good reason) and basically never in the top 10.

This also falls into part of what I'm referring to from a drafting perspective. The flames seem to always like picking "higher" than most when it comes to Goalies.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Stone does seem like a Montreal type defenceman.

Theres some players throughout the 2nd round I'd love the Flames to grab.

Ideally if we're trading with MTL, i'd like 2 of the 4 picks they have in that round.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Theres some players throughout the 2nd round I'd love the Flames to grab.

Ideally if we're trading with MTL, i'd like 2 of the 4 picks they have in that round.

If we can get two 2nd round picks for Stone, I hope the deal is done by the end of the day. But I'm of the belief that Andersson is ready.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If we can get two 2nd round picks for Stone, I hope the deal is done by the end of the day. But I'm of the belief that Andersson is ready.

I believe Andersson is ready as well. But I also think in order for him to succeed, he needs top 4 minutes. But thats ultimately up to him and how he pushes his conditioning up through the summer.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I think Andersson is absolutely well suited to bottom pairing minutes, easing in against weak competition.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I get what you're saying, that's why I said their entire junior career numbers need to avg above .910 for ME to feel they are worth taking a chance on. I'm not saying 1 year, or 25 games vs 45 games. I'm specifically speaking in terms of a goalie with 3-4 years in Junior/College and looking at their save % as a whole. Perhaps I did a poor job indicating that in its entirety from the get go.



This also falls into part of what I'm referring to from a drafting perspective. The flames seem to always like picking "higher" than most when it comes to Goalies.

Ah, that makes more sense, I wasn't completely understanding. That's tough too though because a lot of the time when it comes to drafting a goalie you will only have 2 years of major junior experience to draw from. I think in those instances you just need to look for improvement and development from year to year.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Theres some players throughout the 2nd round I'd love the Flames to grab.

Ideally if we're trading with MTL, i'd like 2 of the 4 picks they have in that round.

Other than at the trade deadline for expiring contracts, teams seem pretty reluctant these days to take on salary on non-premium players with term and cap hit left.

Montreal is apparently in a rebuilding stage.

Giving up two seconds for a guy like Stone who is decent enough but not a difference maker would seem counter productive for Montreal. I can't imagine they'd give up even one second for him.

But there have been dumber things done by teams.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I get what you're saying, that's why I said their entire junior career numbers need to avg above .910 for ME to feel they are worth taking a chance on. I'm not saying 1 year, or 25 games vs 45 games. I'm specifically speaking in terms of a goalie with 3-4 years in Junior/College and looking at their save % as a whole. Perhaps I did a poor job indicating that in its entirety from the get go.

There are numerous complicating factors which make drafting goalies arguably the hardest position. Part of the problem with drafting goalies is sometimes the good ones are backups on their junior team in their 17 year old year behind an older 18, 19 or 20 year old goalie. So the scouts get to see them infrequently and they don't get a ton of ice time. Now that isn't always the case, some 17 year olds win the starters job but not always. It complicates drafting goalies. SV% can be a bit of a flawed stat as not every shot is the same quality and not every team is giving up the same amount of good scoring chances. How do you compare a goalie on a poor team that gives up a ton of Grade A chances vs a goalie on a junior powerhouse team that controls the puck for most of the game? It's no simple matter. And the bottom line is that goaltending is far more mental than most positions and determining how mentally strong a young goalie will be in 5 years is near impossible. You can't measure a kid's mental game. Not to mention some of these scouts drafting goalies were never goalies themselves. How much do you value fundamentals? How much do some of these scouts know about goaltending fundamentals? How much do you value agility, competitiveness, etc?

Drafting goalies has always been and will always be somewhat of a crapshoot because of some of the above reasons. It doesn't mean we shouldn't draft them. And IMO it doesn't mean we should avoid drafting them early. You just need to realize you'll need to take a few rolls of the dice to get those double 6's.

Originally Posted by Royle9

This also falls into part of what I'm referring to from a drafting perspective. The flames seem to always like picking "higher" than most when it comes to Goalies.

I don't really see that at all. The top goalie prospects usually go in rounds 1-3. You want a top goalie prospect? Round 2 or 3 is generally where you'll have to take them. You wanna roll the dice on a guy not considered a top prospect? Then sure, grab one later. But the best chance of drafting an impact goalie or forward or defenseman is to take the highly rated ones. Which means taking them somewhat early. Sure people point to the exceptions, some great goalie drafted in round 6 but you don't find starting goalies in round 6 as often as you find them in round 2. And same goes for every position.

I think drafting one in rounds 2 or 3 every 2 or 3 years is the prudent move. I know the McDonald/Demko year they were debating those two pretty hotly and got it wrong but it isn't a science. Parsons and Gillies both still look like astute picks to me. You're not going to hit on every draft pick ever, no team does that, it isn't realistic to expect it.

I quite like how the Flames have approached dealing with drafting and acquiring young goalies in the past 5 years. We don't know the full results yet but I think we've got some really good goalies in Rittich, Gillies and Parsons.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I believe Andersson is ready as well. But I also think in order for him to succeed, he needs top 4 minutes. But thats ultimately up to him and how he pushes his conditioning up through the summer.

Why would he need top 4 minutes to succeed? I'm not sure he'll ever be a top 4 guy as his skating may hinder who he can succeed against. I could be wrong, he seems to have a very smart game but this league keep getting faster and faster and he's got below average skating for a dman from what I've seen.

I can't imagine him being handed top 4 minutes. Bottom pairing and 2nd PP unit would seem ideal to break him in while seeing if he can handle playing against fast players, or big strong players. It's no easy task to suddenly handle top 4 minutes at the NHL level, most young dmen can't handle it immediately, only the truly exceptional ones.

If Andersson does break in on the bottom pairing he'll see some top 4 minutes at some point due to injuries and that will be very telling. But no way do the Flames hand guys like Andersson a top 4 spot before they've proven at the NHL level that they can handle it.

If we deal a top 4 dman then IMO you look for Kulak or Stone to move up into the top 4. Defense is one of the hardest positions in the league to break in at, I think you ease Valimaki or Andersson in next season on the bottom pairing just like was done with Kulak. I know fans get impatient and start itching to see guys promoted into the positions they could evolve into, happens to me all the time but I just don't think defense is a position where you can pencil guys in until they've proven it. Andersson is likely ready to move onto the NHL but that doesn't mean he jumps from the AHL into the top 4 IMO. I think only Valimaki is exceptional enough to make a jump that large but I wouldn't bank on him starting in our top 4 either. Smart money would have zero rookies starting in our top 4. It's rare you're healthy all year so these kids will get their chances, we don't have to worry about that.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Lots of fans want to see a few young players promoted from Stockton to replace old vets. If Huska is an assistant I think this only helps the chances of that happening as he'll be very familiar with the Heat players and will have an influence on how the roster is shaped. He'll know if a Klimchuk or an Andersson is ready and how best to use those guys at the NHL level.

So if you're a fan of promoting young players I would think you'd be a fan of Huska winning an assistant's job. Part of why TB and PIT promoted so many young players was hiring their AHL coach to be their head coach. Now I realize hiring Huska to be an assistant is not the same as having him as the head coach but he will have an influence on roster decisions as an assistant so IMO it would help some of the Stockton guys get a good chance at winning roster spots and earning the confidence of the coaching staff as a whole. And to be fair Peters doesn't seem shy about graduating players.

So yeah IMO if they announce Huska its a good sign for us promoting a few players this fall.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

ISS final rankings

https://www.isshockey.com/iss-top-31/

[TheIronMaiden]

Here is a list of how many picks each team has in the draft. I figured it might be useful for discussions of who the Flames might trade with to move up.
the list was stolen from this article: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...rade-deadline/

TEAM # of Draft Picks
Detroit 11
NY Rangers 10
Montreal 10
Philadelphia 9
Colorado 9
NY Islanders 8
Chicago 8
Dallas 8
Minnesota 8
Buffalo 7
Tampa Bay 7
Toronto 7
Carolina 7
Anaheim 7
St. Louis 7
Los Angeles 7
Vegas 7
Florida 6
Ottawa 6
New Jersey 6
Pittsburgh 6
Washington 6
Winnipeg 6
Arizona 6
Edmonton 6
San Jose 6
Vancouver 6
Boston 5
Columbus 5
Nashville 5
Calgary 5

[SeanCharles]

I thought we only had 4 picks left: 2 x 4th, 6th & 7th rd?

- 1st and 2nd traded for Hamonic
- 3rd traded for Smith
- 5th traded for re-signing Stone

[Toonage]

Too bad the Flames (likely) won't be taking the podium on the Friday night of the draft. Some teams will be unveiling their 3rd jerseys apparently.

https://www.icethetics.co/blog/2018/...-third-jerseys

[Barca]

Are you guys gonna watch the draft?

[Toonage]

^ Absolutely. I'm taking the day off work as that whole day is a big deal now. Even without a Flames pick I will still watch the draft itself as there is usually some trade drama and the intrigue of who goes where.

[Barca]

Originally Posted by Toonage

^ Absolutely. I'm taking the day off work as that whole day is a big deal now. Even without a Flames pick I will still watch the draft itself as there is usually some trade drama and the intrigue of who goes where.

I got even more excited after you posted that news. I love new jerseys

[Royle9]

Will be watching as well, my hopes is that Brad uses the draft as a time to retool some of our needs, so I'm hoping we're either wheeling and dealing or finding a way to get our name on the 1st round list to be on said podium.

1 can dream.

[GoJetsGo]

Seems like there's always some worthwhile trades / wheeling and dealing going on so I'll be watching for sure. I have a feeling the Flames will be active that weekend in one way or another.

[Poe969]

Have to watch the draft this year, I do every year, for the Tkachuk drama. He'll be compared to his brother, they'll speculate if he signs, or the Flames might get a pick to select him. That's the most interesting aspect of it for me.