We have too many players now, who are we trading this summer?

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Granlund and Ferland are waiver exempt. I won't be surprised if they start in Stockton just because they can.

Ya, I agree. I think some vets will get the Seto treatment this season and they will have to try to keep their spots.

I think Treliving has his job cut out for him. Trade them for picks, gotta stock up on picks.

I don't know that Byron will be back, he is going to arbitration. I think the team won't have a choice but to let him walk.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Ya, I agree. I think some vets will get the Seto treatment this season and they will have to try to keep their spots.

I think Treliving has his job cut out for him. Trade them for picks, gotta stock up on picks.

I don't know that Byron will be back, he is going to arbitration. I think the team won't have a choice but to let him walk.

Unless the arbitrator is high as a kite and awards Byron a deal with an AAV of $3.5M or higher, the Flames can't walk away from the deal.

[azzarish]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Unless the arbitrator is high as a kite and awards Byron a deal with an AAV of $3.5M or higher, the Flames can't walk away from the deal.

And they qualified him as well which means they want him to stay, but obviously at a salary that they deem fair. When not injured he was pretty decent some of the time, but so so at other times. Finishing wasn't that great but offered a lot of speed and hustle.

[AcGold]

Byron is 100% worth keeping. If he can improve and learn to finish he'll be a huge asset. It seemed like he was getting a breakaway a game when he was playing well, that keeps teams on their heels even if he doesn't score. Not many players can get by the d like he does.

[azzarish]

Just reading through this thread I'd be shocked if Colborne got traded.

Also, I don't think we're going to carry all of Hiller, Ramo and Ortio. I'd expect Hiller to get traded but not before training camp, and depending on team needs because of a lot of teams dealt for their goalies around the draft. As for the others (Shore, Jooris, Bollig, Granlund) it really depends on what happens at training camp and who is the surprise package this camp.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Raymond traded either, but again closer to the start of the season, if he's made expendable by one of the young guys.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

Ya, I agree. I think some vets will get the Seto treatment this season.

Umm...I highly doubt it. Doesn't make any sense to bury high or significant contracts in the AHL. Not good asset management because:

1) The savings of burying most of the vets is minimal since you can only bury about $925,000 of a player's cap hit in the AHL.

2) You kill any potential ability to trade them if you stick them in Stockton.

3) Too many vets on big one-way contracts in the AHL means potentially taking a spot there away from a player who could use the development in the AHL even more than the vets.

Only vet I could possibly see MAYBE getting this treatment is Bollig on a $1.25M cap hit because 3/4 of his cap hit can be hidden in the AHL if sent to Stockton, but even then, I doubt this will happen with him.

[jtfrogger]

Originally Posted by Karl

Umm...I highly doubt it. Doesn't make any sense to bury high or significant contracts in the AHL. Not good asset management because:

1) The savings of burying most of the vets is minimal since you can only bury about $925,000 of a player's cap hit in the AHL.

Unless they pull off some crazy trades, the Flames will be no where near the cap this year. The cap space this season is irrelevant. The only dollar value that would factor into this is budget. Every indication is that Treliving will have all the budget he wants to help this team. Keeping a player on two way contract in the NHL usually increases the spend on the team by less than a million. So, I do not see how this impacts the team this year.

2) You kill any potential ability to trade them if you stick them in Stockton.

Any player that passes through waivers generally does not have much trade value. Sending them to Stockton does not diminish that any further. And if you would rather not lose an "asset" for nothing through waivers, do your really think many people would be upset if another team picked off Raymond or Bollig without the Flames having to give up an asset or retain salary? Especially after they get beat out by a half dozen younger players, I don't think that this is a big worry.

3) Too many vets on big one-way contracts in the AHL means potentially taking a spot there away from a player who could use the development in the AHL even more than the vets.

How many is two many? 1-2 NHL veterans get passed over and sent down nearly every year ever since Feaster became the GM. Last year was Setoguchi and McGrattan. Sure, they many not be "big one-way contracts", but I don't see the size of the contract making any difference to the point of trying to develop players. Think of them as replacing the AHL journeyman players that are usually signed to prop up the team.

Only vet I could possibly see MAYBE getting this treatment is Bollig on a $1.25M cap hit because 3/4 of his cap hit can be hidden in the AHL if sent to Stockton, but even then, I doubt this will happen with him.

You really think that it is unlikely that Bollig will be sent down because 1/4 of his cap hit will still stick with the Flames? Even if the Flames were a cap team, I don't think the ~$300k cap hit would be a big factor in the decision making.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

The best players in Hartley's estimation make the team. The others are sent down or traded. There isn't much more to it than that, as the cap is not really an issue this year.

I think this may well be the way the Flames operate going forward. Stock the team with enough legitimate players so there are tough decisions to be made on the cuts. The "always earned" slogan is a bit of a cliche, but I think they did an excellent job with it last year and hope they continue.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

oops. double post

[Lanny_McDonald]

Do the Flames sit on a couple veterans expecting a possible expansion draft this coming spring? They may over cook a couple kids just to have the required veterans to expose in a draft. Just a thought.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by New Era

Do the Flames sit on a couple veterans expecting a possible expansion draft this coming spring? They may over cook a couple kids just to have the required veterans to expose in a draft. Just a thought.

I have thought the same, but expansion isn't projected until 2017-18

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

The best players in Hartley's estimation make the team. The others are sent down or traded. There isn't much more to it than that, as the cap is not really an issue this year.

I think this may well be the way the Flames operate going forward. Stock the team with enough legitimate players so there are tough decisions to be made on the cuts. The "always earned" slogan is a bit of a cliche, but I think they did an excellent job with it last year and hope they continue.

I agree in general, but I do think the fans need to brace themselves for the potential of a little hanky panky let's call it at the start of the season. Hypothetical example, lets say Mason Raymond just doesn't "really" make the team. Might see him start a for the first bit while a younger guy plays in Stockton as the Flames figure out if Raymond can generate anything in a trade. Then they manage to trade him, or if there are no takers send him down and call up the young guy.

I'm sure they won't do something like that should be replacing Raymond is so much better that the team is much worse playing him, they'll just bite the bullet, but in scenarios where it's kind of close play wise in the short term, they'll manage their assets appropriately and try to get some value for the veteran player before fully doing the "always earned" bit, which to me is smart asset management.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I agree in general, but I do think the fans need to brace themselves for the potential of a little hanky panky let's call it at the start of the season. Hypothetical example, lets say Mason Raymond just doesn't "really" make the team. Might see him start a for the first bit while a younger guy plays in Stockton as the Flames figure out if Raymond can generate anything in a trade. Then they manage to trade him, or if there are no takers send him down and call up the young guy.

I'm sure they won't do something like that should be replacing Raymond is so much better that the team is much worse playing him, they'll just bite the bullet, but in scenarios where it's kind of close play wise in the short term, they'll manage their assets appropriately and try to get some value for the veteran player before fully doing the "always earned" bit, which to me is smart asset management.

Totally agree. Similar to the Seto situation last year, sometimes you need to give the vets a chance to play themselves out of the line up. Waiver eligibility, salary cap and other issues will come into play to muddy the waters a bit. As much as Jooris may have deserved to start with the big club out of camp, I do think that was managed properly.

[Mister Yamoto]

It takes 30+ players to get through an NHL season. Players are going to get hurt and or have slumps.

Numbers wise, I'd say the Flames are right where they need to be. If anything, they should be looking to add a couple of players. Depth Dman or two?

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

It takes 30+ players to get through an NHL season. Players are going to get hurt and or have slumps.

Numbers wise, I'd say the Flames are right where they need to be. If anything, they should be looking to add a couple of players. Depth Dman or two?

Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-Wideman
Russell-Engelland
Smid
Wotherspoon
Nakladal
Morrison
Sieloff
Kulak
Culkin

I see your point, but I'm not rushing out to go get another d-man just yet. If Schlemko or another depth d-man falls into your lap in August you take a look, but at this point I'm almost in asset (draft pick) collection and housekeeping (RFA signing) mode.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

It takes 30+ players to get through an NHL season. Players are going to get hurt and or have slumps.

Numbers wise, I'd say the Flames are right where they need to be. If anything, they should be looking to add a couple of players. Depth Dman or two?

Smid, Morrison, Nakadal, and Wotherspoon are all guys that could play on the bottom pairing in case of injuries. No need for more defensemen. Maybe sign a AHL veteran D-man to an AHL contract but that's it.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Byron is 100% worth keeping. If he can improve and learn to finish he'll be a huge asset. It seemed like he was getting a breakaway a game when he was playing well, that keeps teams on their heels even if he doesn't score. Not many players can get by the d like he does.

I recall Bouma saying that he spent a lot of time last off-season working on his shot. It seemed to pay off for him, why not Byron?