[PGT] Flames Fall 6-0 in Phx

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FBI

Wasn't one of Burkes lame excuses to fire Feaster that we have to start holding on to these leads?

What about now when we can't score a dang goal. Make a change already Burke. So far you haven't been very impressive.

No Burke's valid excuse to fire Feaster was underwhelming returns on trades and unimpressive drafting as Burke said the day of the announcement. You honestly think that Burke felt Feaster had an influence on how the team held a lead?

It's a rebuild and some of you already want knee jerk trades? If you don't have the patience to ride this out maybe you need to cheer for a different team because it's going to be like this at times for the next few seasons. The team is paying for a decade of no prospects in the cupboard and win-now mentality with an old team. Blame Edwards, the owners and King for this predicament not Burke. There is no quick fix that's going to change the plight of this team overnight unless you want to see prospects traded for quick fix help so we can continue the cycle of failure.

[edn88]

The Flames need to be careful about how badly they suck.

I was happy to watch them battle to close games then lose, but I have no interest in going to games to watch them get shut out...

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Day Tripper

a


WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE!?!?!?

He couldn't even spell Makarov properly, what do you expect?

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Team is close.

Couple of tweaks here and there should do it.

To score a goal? Yes, I think so.

BELIEVE.

[moon]

Originally Posted by btimbit

How was Berra? Cost the game, or was he hung out to dry again?

Can't blame him for the loss and many of the goals he had little to no chance but he wasn't very good himself. Still out of his net way too much, fighting the puck and giving up poor rebounds. I think it is getting past the point of him adapting to the NHL ice and now into the range of him not being a very good goalie.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So this is kind of funny. The Coyotes Flames match is so boring and ultimately awful that the conversation turns to the Sabres and Isles (and not even dignifying the Oil)

I had a feeling that tonight's game would be rough. For one, the Coyotes are a team coached in a way that will prey on weakness but never ultimately and truly succeed. Sad because this is the crap that frustrates the Flames and results in a terrible beating where they go out with a whimper

Secondly, after the win over the Avs, Cammalleri's post game interview was among the worst I have seen. He spent more time looking down the hall and at his feet than at the camera. When Millions suggested that perhaps the offensive breakout was a positive development, he pretty much said 'hopefully' with defeatist attitude rather than exhibiting his gregariousness. I have never seen a guy with such a loser face after scoring a game winner. Ironic after his comments that left Montreal forced to dispatch him. Some leader.

I say, the team after Burke turfed Feaster is a bunch of guys that feel they were given up on and are now looking over their shoulders. Feaster's track record here aside, he was developing a certain atmosphere that acknowledged the rebuild and gave comfort, but Burke undermined everyone's confidence whether he expected to or not.

Start with a small roster you need to ask to overachieve. Tell a team (and their fans) they are too small and then all of the 5'6"-5'11", <190 pound guys who were empowered have been snipped.

4 shutouts in 6 games? Pretty darn close to rock bottom here. Amazing how much worse a team that is already bad on paper can be when they are demoralized.

Cammi is putting in a professional enough effort but if he is not flu ridden he is checked out and needs to go. We are right at the point we were last year where Iggy was going to go and the players are waiting for the next shoe to drop.

Other than Monahan and McGrattan, Cammalleri was the only other player who wasn't a minus last night. Westgarth was an awesome -3.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by moon

Can't blame him for the loss and many of the goals he had little to no chance but he wasn't very good himself. Still out of his net way too much, fighting the puck and giving up poor rebounds. I think it is getting past the point of him adapting to the NHL ice and now into the range of him not being a very good goalie.

I hope not but we might be at that point. I think he'll get until the end of the season to show the organization where he's at. He has improved alot since the start of the year IMO (both goalies have) but still has a ways to go in the areas you mentioned.

I think a big part of the reason why he gets so many starts is so he can improve and also for the team to see exactly what they have in him.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by habernac

Other than Monahan and McGrattan, Cammalleri was the only other player who wasn't a minus last night. Westgarth was an awesome -3.

...but you are missing the biggest factor. Truculence. Nuff said.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Secondly, after the win over the Avs, Cammalleri's post game interview was among the worst I have seen. He spent more time looking down the hall and at his feet than at the camera. When Millions suggested that perhaps the offensive breakout was a positive development, he pretty much said 'hopefully' with defeatist attitude rather than exhibiting his gregariousness. I have never seen a guy with such a loser face after scoring a game winner. Ironic after his comments that left Montreal forced to dispatch him. Some leader.

Haha I noticed that too. All I could think was Jesus buddy, you just scored the game winner in a gusty win. How about you smile for the fans. He's one of those vets who can't wait to gtfo.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by browna

I don't think Hartley ever had buy in from the vets last year (many of those still here this year) given his patronage appointment from that previous regime (look at Millions' tweet yesterday after he had words with Sarich).

I must have missed this tweet. Could someone tell me what it was?

[MissTeeks]

Roger Millions‏@RogMillions6 Jan
Former Flame Cory Sarich raves about Patrick Roy as coach of #Avs. "Great understanding of players and how a team works." hmmmmmm

Roger Millions‏@RogMillions6 Jan
On playing 17+ minutes a night Sarich says "a little better than skating with Gelly after every practice." #Avs #Flames

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I really hate Phoenix. Only player I truly respect on that roster is Mike Smith.

Oliver Ekman-Larsson what a bum!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Roger Millions‏@RogMillions6 Jan
Former Flame Cory Sarich raves about Patrick Roy as coach of #Avs. "Great understanding of players and how a team works." hmmmmmm

lol, Roger is so catty.

[CaptainCrunch]

That was a tough game to watch, you saw it coming a mile away in the first period.

Maybe the team shot its emotional load in Colorado, but this was probably one of the biggest no shows this season based on the fact that nobody showed up, that's disappointing.

One of the things I said at the start of the rebuild is that fans will be pretty open to it in the first year, then Calgary fans will lose patience in year two and flock away from the team in year three.

If we think its bad now, next year will be worse as the Flames dump off vets at the trade deadline and the vets that come into the lineup will define scrubs, and not all of the young players are going to make it to be a regular contributor.

I've always said that a rebuild should really be no longer then three years. If it goes beyond that your doing something wrong.

Year 1 - acquire draft picks, dump core players, decide to keep a few key vets to fill leadership vacuum. Draft as best as you can

Year 2 - More younger players step in, you sign stop gap free agents to fill out the lineup, you start roatating farm players up to audition. Hopefully 2 or 3 of your young players step up leadership wise. This should be the worse year. Hopefully you have multiple firsts and good drafting

Year 3 - You should see improvement some of your really young guys at the start of the rebuild have hit vet status and should start to carry their lines. You shouldn't need as many air dropped vets as prospects from year one should be stepping in. You should be in that 9 to 11 spot at the end of the year and trending upwards. start weeding out the busts and trading them for player assets. If your close enough to the playoffs at the deadline or even just treading upwards. Try to fill a need via trade. Just hold onto your first

Year 4 - Continue to draft well especially in the first round. Sign free agent vets to fill spots, hopefully the majority of the team is based on either prospects from the start of the rebuild or veterans that started as prospects. Be buyers at a trade deadline. The team should be looking at finishing in one of the wildcard spots at least.

Anything over a 3 to 4 year rebuild and all your doing is continually reshuffling the deck chairs on the titanic like the Oilers and Islanders etc.

[Meers]

Looking at the Flames' lineup at the beginning of the season, this was the sort of result I was dreading - but also half-expecting.

Get used to it folks. It's the nature of a rebuild.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

all i was saying was that this team was supposed to be flat out terrible. They have been a team that has been able to keep it close in almost all their games, and been a relatively exciting group to watch, despite not winning much. They have been considered the hardest working team in the league, we have heard that from numerous people outside the organization and fan base.

Hartley has to be applauded for that in my opinion, and i'm not even a hartley fan.

if everyone wants to start freaking out about the state of the flames, a team that seems to have completely derailed and can't generate any offense, let's look at Brian Burke DIRECTLY. There is a direct correlation between the firing of feaster/wiesbrod and the sudden craptastic play of the team.

I get that burke felt they weren't part of the future for this franchise, and needed to be removed. what i don't understand is why the change had to be made mid season, when things were going about as good as a Rebuild:Year1 could be going? did he not expect the team to have a reaction and the possibility that it would bring a possible change in attitude of some key players on the team? There's the excuse that we're in a race to a new GM with buffalo, so this had to be done asap... well by all accounts that rush is all but over, with rumours out there that no replacement GM will be in place till at least the offseason.

it's not actually even that big a deal (flames were supposed to suck, and now truly do), especially if, at the end of the day, the team is already looking at this year as a lottery draft winning type year, so the end result on the scoreboard is becoming more and more of a insignificant matter.

sorry for the novel. i just don't see a group of players that have packed it in, or tuning out the coach over the course of the first half of the season. i do see a different attitude and quality of play shortly after the GM removal.

Yes, we derailed when Burke came aboard but considering he's done nothing besides sending Sven down and adding Westgarth... correlation doesn't imply causation.

In the long run I'd rather suck this year if it means being better in the future. Finishing 27th instead of 29th really doesn't impress me much.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by saXon

...but you are missing the biggest factor. Truculence. Nuff said.

We haven't been getting pushed around as much with grats and westgarth in our line up he does seem to keep the other team at least honest.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Robo

We haven't been getting pushed around as much with grats and westgarth in our line up he does seem to keep the other team at least honest.

Who cares if we're not getting pushed around if we are wasting 2 spots on useless goons? Does not being pushed around matter in the standings?

Wanna know a team who's been pushed around for a long time? The Detroit Red Wings.

I feel like some people would be happy if we continually sucked but as long as they went to sleep knowing we weren't being bullied they'd be happy.

Westgarth is useless for 95% of the game. McGrattan closer to 99%.

Nobody has a problem with one of those guys taking a spot from Reinhart? that kid deserves to be in the NHL but because of useless goons there isn't a spot for him.

[btimbit]

I have no problem with a goon line. I'd love for guys like Reinhart and Knight to get a shot up here but if and when they do, I don't want it to be fourth line minutes. If anything they're taking spots from guys like MacDermid, which is fine IMO

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I have no problem with a goon line. I'd love for guys like Reinhart and Knight to get a shot up here but if and when they do, I don't want it to be fourth line minutes. If anything they're taking spots from guys like MacDermid, which is fine IMO

Why not? You want to throw them 15-20 minutes immediately? They'd be just fine with 8-12 minutes.