Chinook Centre's Security - Highly Aggressive? You decide.

[Voodooman]

My reaction to the video was the same as pretty much every other video like this one. The easiest way to not get punched, beaten, tasered, maced, pepper sprayed, shot, or similarly abused by LE or other such authority figures, it to LISTEN to what you are told and OBEY commands.

I swear it's 98% effective, 95% of the time.

Jokers like this are just begging for it. After watching the news story, I am positive that he provoked the security force. Did they use excessive force? Quite possibly. But again, there's a pretty easy way to avoid the whole scene.

[Mr.Coffee]

Excessive force is excessive force is excessive force. Regardless of how low-life a scumbag may be. There is a reason most enforcement agencies and/or security personnel will have a code of conduct and/or policies and procedures.

I can't imagine the actions taken by these thugs whoops- mall cops, are in line with how Chinook wants its' mall cops to operate.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

My reaction to the video was the same as pretty much every other video like this one. The easiest way to not get punched, beaten, tasered, maced, pepper sprayed, shot, or similarly abused by LE or other such authority figures, it to LISTEN to what you are told and OBEY commands.

I swear it's 98% effective, 95% of the time.

Jokers like this are just begging for it. After watching the news story, I am positive that he provoked the security force. Did they use excessive force? Quite possibly. But again, there's a pretty easy way to avoid the whole scene.

Did you just call a security guard an authority figure?

[OldDutch]

"Not the best place to Pop a squat but I digress"

Came in looking for FUBAR style buddy line, left satisfied.

[Voodooman]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Did you just call a security guard an authority figure?

Well, I'd say that anyone who has their knee firmly implanted in the back of your skull is an authority figure at that particular moment.

I wouldn't exactly state that a mall security guard is an authority figure, but given that you are on their property, you should follow reasonable suggestions from that property's personnel.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Did you just call a security guard an authority figure?

Say what you will about Mall Cops but yes in a sense they are. The Chinook Mall is private property - the Security Guards act on their behalf in a position of authority.

Just because some people think that the guards who work there are beneath them doesn't make them any less important to the security of the building. These people aren't just there for loss prevention reasons - they escort women to their cars at night and take control during emergencies.

The whole Mall Cops are worthless scum is getting a little old - I'd hate to hear how some of you feel about Office housekeeping.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Say what you will about Mall Cops but yes in a sense they are. The Chinook Mall is private property - the Security Guards act on their behalf in a position of authority.

Just because some people think that the guards who work there are beneath them doesn't make them any less important to the security of the building. These people aren't just there for loss prevention reasons - they escort women to their cars at night and take control during emergencies.

The whole Mall Cops are worthless scum is getting a little old - I'd hate to hear how some of you feel about Office housekeeping.

Yeah, there is a lot of broad labelling being done in this thread but in this case these mall cops are acting like worthless scum and after watching this maybe women may not trust them to walk them to their cars at night.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

The whole Mall Cops are worthless scum is getting a little old - I'd hate to hear how some of you feel about Office housekeeping.

First you build them up, then you knock them down.

[jhunt223]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Fairly common? I've known many tokers over the years and never did I see scissors. Unlike Mr. Face Tattoo here however they were gainfully employed and thus bought what is fairly common, a buster.

So.. in your mind this guy is running around getting into scissor fights with soc's?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

Jokers like this are just begging for it. After watching the news story, I am positive that he provoked the security force.

Do share what information was in the news story that led you to your conclusion.

Originally Posted by Voodooman

Did they use excessive force? Quite possibly.

Again, do share how you feel that they might not have used excessive force.

I'm just confused how you can be 100% certain over a part of the story that there is no information on yet are uncertain of another part that has video evidence showing him being kicked and punched?

[jayswin]

You know what this thread reminds me of? Remeber that guy that got refused at a Calgary Hospital a couple of years ago? He had some kind of goth cross on or something?

All I remember was the same pattern in the thread.

- Thread gets posted, starts with outrage as no one should be refused healthcare based on anything

- A couple posters make comments about how the guy might have questionable character, as if that matters

- Picture of guy eventually makes it's way to thread, group of posters go into all out assault mode on guy, based on the picture they saw, and start totally defending the hospital, and suggesting if he didn't dress like a goth the whole debacle would have never happened.

God damn CP sometimes.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, there is a lot of broad labelling being done in this thread but in this case these mall cops are acting like worthless scum and after watching this maybe women may not trust them to walk them to their cars at night.

I am fairly certain my wife feels more safe knowing these guys aren't afraid to do what is required (not that I know what took place that night), just sayin'.

[scottish_flame]

So what if that guy went back with his 5 friends and treated each one of those ###### bags the same way?. That would just be classed as assault wouldn't it ?

You can't punch a guy while he's on the deck. I hope to #### these "security guards" get what they deserve

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

So what if that guy went back with his 5 friends and treated each one of those ###### bags the same way?. That would just be classed as assault wouldn't it ?

Depends, does the security officer being beaten have a neck tattoo?

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by flameswin

You know what this thread reminds me of? Remeber that guy that got refused at a Calgary Hospital a couple of years ago? He had some kind of goth cross on or something?

All I remember was the same pattern in the thread.

- Thread gets posted, starts with outrage as no one should be refused healthcare based on anything

- A couple posters make comments about how the guy might have questionable character, as if that matters

- Picture of guy eventually makes it's way to thread, group of posters go into all out assault mode on guy, based on the picture they saw, and start totally defending the hospital, and suggesting if he didn't dress like a goth the whole debacle would have never happened.

God damn CP sometimes.

I should probably clarify (seeing as how I posted the link to the Facebook page) that I don't fall into this group. I just think it's interesting to learn about the only person in this thing whose name is public and also the most prominent person. I'm sure a couple of the security guards, the responding police officers, the other Chinook Centre staff involved, etc. have their own peculiarities too. Obviously some of the security guards have something about them that cause them to struggle with restraint.

You have to admit (and even he himself did so by saying he has a provocative image) that there are some interesting things about him. There's information out there about him that many people will use to judge his character. It is possible to keep that separate from the other questions and issues that the take down depicted in the video have brought up.

To my eyes, with the facts that are currently available, it appears that there was some wrongdoing by the responding security guards, especially those throwing punches and barking out things like "I'm going to f-ck you up!" and "What did you say!?" while he was on the ground. I'm interested to see what disciplinary measures are forthcoming. I think there's some justified (again pending some as-yet-unknown additional information or camera angles) and that the security company should use this as a prompt to update the training of their staff and take another look at their hiring practices.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by jhunt223

So.. in your mind this guy is running around getting into scissor fights with soc's ?

Heh

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

I should probably clarify (seeing as how I posted the link to the Facebook page) that I don't fall into this group. I just think it's interesting to learn about the only person in this thing whose name is public and also the most prominent person. I'm sure a couple of the security guards, the responding police officers, the other Chinook Centre staff involved, etc. have their own peculiarities too. Obviously some of the security guards have something about them that cause them to struggle with restraint.

You have to admit (and even he himself did so by saying he has a provocative image) that there are some interesting things about him. There's information out there about him that many people will use to judge his character. It is possible to keep that separate from the other questions and issues that the take down depicted in the video have brought up.

To my eyes, with the facts that are currently available, it appears that there was some wrongdoing by the responding security guards, especially those throwing punches and barking out things like "I'm going to f-ck you up!" and "What did you say!?" while he was on the ground. I'm interested to see what disciplinary measures are forthcoming. I think there's some justified (again pending some as-yet-unknown additional information or camera angles) and that the security company should use this as a prompt to update the training of their staff and take another look at their hiring practices.

No, definitly wasn't directed at you, as you never made any comments suggesting a link between how he looked/what he was into and whether he deserved what happened. Those are the comments that are funny to me.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

My reaction to the video was the same as pretty much every other video like this one. The easiest way to not get punched, beaten, tasered, maced, pepper sprayed, shot, or similarly abused by LE or other such authority figures, it to LISTEN to what you are told and OBEY commands.

I swear it's 98% effective, 95% of the time.

Jokers like this are just begging for it. After watching the news story, I am positive that he provoked the security force. Did they use excessive force? Quite possibly. But again, there's a pretty easy way to avoid the whole scene.

Begging for it????

My guess is you were there egging on the rent a cops saying..."Kick his ass!!!" Kick his ass!!!"

They guy may have been disrespectful and all but to say he deserves a beating is plain and utter bull####!

[dammage79]

This is the National use of force model used by all provinces that require Security personnel to be licensed.

Security personnel have the right to arrest someone under a citizens arrest. To use restraining devices I.E zip ties or hand cuffs, you must have a special licensing (at least in B.C but since AB uses protect licensing for all security I would assume they have it as well).

This guy is clearly active resistant allowing them to use controlling force, being a vocal victim during the restraining process while physically resisting is a very common thing these days. The only excess use of force I saw in that video was the one guy who came out of nowhere and started punching the guy in the sides to get his arms into an arrestable position, that is a total cop move and he isn't one, he is a licensed security guard. Aside from that, the whole situation went down right.

If the person was in fact trespassing with a banned substance they have every right to make that arrest. If his scissors were out in plain sight they could be considered a weapon. Especially if you have to ask this person to leave (acting as a passive resistant person while holding onto a potential weapon is the same as being assaultive due to the added threat).

I've never been a mall cop but I do have experience in security and more often than not, youtube videos only catch the aftermath of the "Victims" actions. Not the initial action and it is very trendy these days to "take it to the man" with video of police brutality or excessive force. Makes for a good lawsuit as well. And guys like that are very well aware of this. Easy way to get a good pay out. Seriously, I've worked in places that get sued on the regular without one of them getting a settlement or any after effects because the Judge tosses them while being mad he missed lunch for this waste of time.

As much as it appears these guys are Victims, they intend for it to look that way. No joke. But he got what he wanted in this situation because of that one guard who came in to massage his kidneys.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The only excess use of force I saw in that video was the one guy who came out of nowhere and started punching the guy in the sides to get his arms into an arrestable position

You don't see a problem with this statement? "The only excess use of force." So they used excess force?

Also using the scissors is a copout excuse, there's no reason to believe that the Guards thought he had scissors on him. He just happened to have them discovered after the fact.