How much longer do you think the Oilers will be this bad for?

[stang]

Originally Posted by Red John

Neither option is great but one is definitely better than the other.

Disagree with this part. Both pretty damn terrible.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by VERVE

Wow boys, rather skewed and bias view of your team and the Oilers.
If Edmonton fans are dumb, then the Flames fans must be in a comatose state or lobotomized. Most Flames fans seemed to accept that former Sutter and now Feaster were and are doing fantastic to assembled a team of 2nd and third liners who are way-over agers and making the playoffs (and contend). The team is continually having one of the highest numbers of NTC and NMC signed.

Their owners love Kipper and Iggy so much that they have become Miss Havisham who was left at the alter wishing and hoping that one day, they will unite under Lord Stanley while never letting them go as their values diminshed each year.

The media are the ones doing the hyping because it attracts interests and apparently you guys ate it up. The Oilers are trying to appease their fans while maintaining that they are going through some tough growing pains and most likely staying the course.

You have a terrible assessment of RNH and truly incorrect. He plays both ends of the ice and an unbelievable passer. He is very talented player and has a great hockey IQ and vision. He is going through some tough stretches this year.

I call BS on your entire post with the exception of the last paragraph.

Do you actually read this board, the media and listen to Flames fans over the last three years. If anything this fanbase and the associated media are turning on this franchise due to missing the playoffs year after year. I think your making things up to make a point on that.

On the Kipper and Iggy point, the vast majority of the fans and the media in this town and even the national media are screaming that they're great guys but its time to move on from them, so again you are kinda full of it.

Its more then the media hyping the Oilers, you yourself are pretty much one of the bigger examples of third eye blind around. The fans on HF, on Oilfans and the ones that come here with certain reasonable exceptions have taken a boast mentality about your teams so called future. Oiler fans seem content with losing as long as they draft high and pick up young players who are steadily being ruined by playing in that poisonous environment. I haven't heard one fan stand up yet and say that outside of goaltending your sad sack organization has taken a step further back from being competitive this year. We blast Oiler fans because in part we feel sorry for you. We have right now a bad team and we have serious questions about management, but at least we're honest about it. Oiler fans live in the land of delusion. The fact that your team remains incompetently lead and coached and stocked by players is because Oiler fans have bought one of the greatest hockey cons since the Sens threw games to get Daigle.

RNH is a very talented player, I think he's badly coached. He's probably going through a sophomore slump, but don't make him out to be a great or even good two way player. The biggest problem right now with the Oilers Young Guns is that they are playing a selfish game, and your coach who is the wrong coach, yah old boys club represent isn't putting the hammer down on them.

You are one of the biggest Oiler homer fans out there, and you've managed to evade duck dodge and duck around here for a long time, so part of the joy of the Oilers being an even worse run franchise then the Flames is that the egg looks good on you.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Oilers are a joke for sure...but anyone suggesting RNH is terrible is a fool... He's a great positional player (at both ends) and will likely turn out to be a ppg player, at least.

Whether he turns out better than other players in his draft year, I have no idea...but he'll be a strong player for the Oilers in coming years.

He is a great positional player? Are you kidding me. Matt Stajan can be a great positional player.

He was drafted #1 with the expectation that he will be a superstar. And yet when you watch his game, even those where he actually plays well, he floats. Sure, you can claim he is a playmaker, which is fine....but players like Crosby and Tanguay are primarily playmakers as well, and they are a lot more involved than RNH is.

Of course, we have no idea how much his shoulder is affecting him, which would probably explain his big step back.

He might be a 'good' player, but the Oilers don't need more 'good' players. They need leaders and top-end players that will take their team to the top.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Red John

No they don't. Most Flames fans don't agree with ownerships direction and haven't for a while.

Flames and Oilers fans are polar opposites. Flames fans are almost overly critical of their team and overreact to losses.

Oilers fans buy their managements hype each year despite being the laughingstock of the NHL.

Neither option is great but one is definitely better than the other.

The Flames team is at opposite ends of the spectrum at the current time but in relatively similar positions that said look at the hype that surrounded Baertschi (who will turn out of to be a very good player) leading up to this season, where people were expecting to slot him into a top 6 role on the team in which he would contend for the calder after putting up 30+ points, helping push the Flames into playoff contention.

People love to overhype the unknown just look at Kari Ramo is the best goaltender out of the NHL, before it was Henrik Karlson. In the Oilers case the fans hype the unknown aspect of youth.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The Flames team is at opposite ends of the spectrum at the current time but in relatively similar positions that said look at the hype that surrounded Baertschi (who will turn out of to be a very good player) leading up to this season, where people were expecting to slot him into a top 6 role on the team in which he would contend for the calder after putting up 30+ points, helping push the Flames into playoff contention.

People love to overhype the unknown just look at Kari Ramo is the best goaltender out of the NHL, before it was Henrik Karlson. In the Oilers case the fans hype the unknown aspect of youth.

Actually, while the hype was there....and most of it was based on his limited showing last year, I don't think anyone here EXPECTED Baertschi to come up this year and lead the team offensively. RNH on the other hand had a decent first year, and as a result Oiler fans expected more from him. Fine, but they expected him to LEAD the team, not support it like Baertschi was supposed too. The same thing can be said for Hall, Shultz, Yakupov. The Oilers are slotting 18-20 year old kids into positions where they are expected to lead, and none of them can properly do it. Physical issues? That much is obvious with both Hall and RNH. But on top of that, like Browna said, the whole team is so used to losing that they don't know how to win anymore. The young players are only part of that now.

Everyone will hype a prospect. We all do it as fans. But its very rare where a 18 year old kid will come into the NHL and be a superstar. And even rarer where he can be a leader.

As much as the Oilers are mismanaging their players, the players they have brought together are not that good, which is why they keep struggling.

[BigBird]

The thing I find pretty amusing about the oilers rebuild all they have been doing is taking the first overall pick and wasting the important years on their entry level contracts. A team like the hawks made trades to improve parts of their roster, then they made a nucleus of decent players. They brought their top prospects to play and they were rewarded by being surrounded by good players. The oilers should be looking at moving one of the top 5 young guys to grab a quality goalie because they will go no where without one.

[browna]

Until they can attract (and pay) decent and plentiful numbers UFA's and get players to trade NMC's, to fill in those unflashy yet required roles with good, established players, they won't go anywhere. They've tried it with Pronger, then Erik Cole, Souray and then Whitney etc, but one off players doesn't do it (except for Pronger, who Lowe jerked around).

They need to trade off one or two of the top young guys that they've got for multiple pieces, and I wouldn't be surprised if they've tried.

But the caliber of player they want in return has an NMC and wants no part of waiving it given the mess that Lowe's created up there, and still presides over.

Until they get 3 solid lines, better then average goaltending, and 4 NHL defenceman, they're not going to get fundamentally better...and the players are going to get worse, confidence-wise at very least.

The only way that happens if they punt Lowe and his shady reputation for screwing over players and remove the stigma.

As an aside, that reputation within the league as a desirable place to play (yes, results on the ice are one thing, but so is not getting jerked around off the ice) is something else that the Flames have been, and I expect to continue to be conscious of...however they decide to handle the Iginla thing especially, will be key in maintaining that.

[kipperfan]

The real question is, who makes the playoffs first, Flames or Oilers? I honestly don't know who it will be, I don't see either team making it in the next 2-3 years so it could be interesting. Realistically though, if the Oilers don't make the playoffs in the next few years (and I suspect they will not) then they are probably going to have to start trading their current "young core" and start the rebuild over again.

[VERVE]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I call BS on your entire post with the exception of the last paragraph.

Do you actually read this board, the media and listen to Flames fans over the last three years. If anything this fanbase and the associated media are turning on this franchise due to missing the playoffs year after year. I think your making things up to make a point on that.

On the Kipper and Iggy point, the vast majority of the fans and the media in this town and even the national media are screaming that they're great guys but its time to move on from them, so again you are kinda full of it.

Its more then the media hyping the Oilers, you yourself are pretty much one of the bigger examples of third eye blind around. The fans on HF, on Oilfans and the ones that come here with certain reasonable exceptions have taken a boast mentality about your teams so called future. Oiler fans seem content with losing as long as they draft high and pick up young players who are steadily being ruined by playing in that poisonous environment. I haven't heard one fan stand up yet and say that outside of goaltending your sad sack organization has taken a step further back from being competitive this year. We blast Oiler fans because in part we feel sorry for you. We have right now a bad team and we have serious questions about management, but at least we're honest about it. Oiler fans live in the land of delusion. The fact that your team remains incompetently lead and coached and stocked by players is because Oiler fans have bought one of the greatest hockey cons since the Sens threw games to get Daigle.

RNH is a very talented player, I think he's badly coached. He's probably going through a sophomore slump, but don't make him out to be a great or even good two way player. The biggest problem right now with the Oilers Young Guns is that they are playing a selfish game, and your coach who is the wrong coach, yah old boys club represent isn't putting the hammer down on them.

You are one of the biggest Oiler homer fans out there, and you've managed to evade duck dodge and duck around here for a long time, so part of the joy of the Oilers being an even worse run franchise then the Flames is that the egg looks good on you.

Gawd, are you always so dramatic...you make Richard Simmons blush. Lets not over-generalize the situation. Your previous post was exhalted like the Grand Poobah at the Water Buffaloes Lodge- quite over the top.

Full of it? Read my August 2011 thread http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ssian+roulette. Most of the responses were the same then as they are today. Miring in mediocrity is where the Flames are in with Feaster's on the-fly-rebuild concept; you can't make changes to your aging core by adding fringe 2nd and 3rd liners and hoping to contend.

Looks like both teams have some issues with their management. I rather have the problems of the Oilers than the Flames. The Oilers made a management decision and followed through with a massive rebuild. Sure, in hind-sight, they can do better in certain key decisions but right now their future is much brighter than the Flames whose owners and GM cannot make the right decision to change course and right the ship and probably 3-4 years too late. The Oilers are gong through some growing pains that can be fixed without disbanding the core group whereas, the Flames core group is part of the problem.

My third eye blind could mean one of two things: my chakra is on a downswing or my snake is continually at an upswing... hopefully one cancels out the other resulting in a mediocre swinging snake with an average chakra.

Not sure how I have "ducked and dodge around here", I have stuck around to deal with what i have wrote in most cases.

I don't believe the coach is the problem. It is just some growing pains the Oilers are going through (which is expected being the youngest team in the league) and they will have to fight through all the different challenges thrown at them.

[Azure]

If you want to look at how the 'stars' are playing right now, trying to win every game with skill alone, getting beat to the corner for lose pucks, being dominated physically, refusing to dump and chase, etc, etc.....if you don't want to call that a coaching problem, then you're saying the players have an even more serious problem.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by VERVE

It is just some growing pains the Oilers are going through (which is expected being the youngest team in the league) and they will have to fight through all the different challenges thrown at them.

Wait, doesn't "growing pains" imply that there's some sort of growth? Far as I can tell, this year's greasers are just as crap as the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that. The oilers are experiencing growing pains the same way that the blue jackets, panthers and islanders are, I guess.

[Enoch Root]

not to mention, they aren't the youngest team in the league (but what do facts matter?)

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by VERVE

The Oilers made a management decision and followed through with a massive rebuild.

Sorry, but when did that happen? Every year the Oilers were close to the cap limit, almost every year they brought in veterans to compete and every offseason the stated goal of the management team was to make the playoffs. Never mind that virtually every season that most of the Oilers fans and much of the hockey media would fawn over how they're "building something special up there" without a hint of sarcasm. For the last 3 seasons most of the fandom and media have picked the Oilers to finish above the Flames in the standings. This year many picked the Oilers to make the playoffs.

Let's not kid ourselves, the Oilers picked first overall NOT because it was some sort of magical rebuilding plan but simply because they were a failure on and off the ice.

[Ezio]

Tonight was the last straw. I'm not gonna watch any games until Kevin Lowe is fired.

[Flamenfame]

No matter how bad the Oilers are we are 20 min away from being in dead last in conference,but hey don't worry Feaster wont blow it up so we are secure at our placing in conference.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Tonight was the last straw. I'm not gonna watch any games until Kevin Lowe is fired.

you mad they won?

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Tonight was the last straw. I'm not gonna watch any games until Kevin Lowe is fired.

....But you guys won....

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

....But you guys won....

They won, but the team was absolutely brutal out there. The coaching is giving prime time minutes to Smyth instead of Yakupov. I can just see the coaching staff salivating and pointing to this game as a reference that things are turning around. Rinse and repeat. There will be no accountability with losing streaks, yet big amounts of praise when they break them. This is easily, the worst team in the NHL.

I've seen this for a decade now.

[Enoch Root]

do you think Yakupov should have been out there in the 3rd with a one goal lead?

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

do you think Yakupov should have been out there in the 3rd with a one goal lead?

Yes. There is some sort of bias against Yakupov that I haven't seen from an Oilers player in a while. He gets criticized for his bad defensive play, but Eberle, Hall and RNH were just as worse in their rookie years. He is a better player than Smyth in all scenarios.