Mike Smith's... woes? He blows? Eating crows? Who knows! (Also David Rittich exists!)

[Dr. Doom]

Not sure what were arguing about... Smith is junk and Rittich hasn't been very good since the all-star break at least.

Unless our offense is prolific as it was before the all-star break this combination will stand for a short playoff run.

It's really that simple!

Love Treliving but he's never been able to figure out goaltending his obvious kryptonite!

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

That's not really it though. Not sure there is a single poster who doesn't want to see Rittich start the playoffs, based on season to date.
There is simply a vocal 'group' crying that the sky is falling when/if Smith starts, when clearly it is not.

I’m pretty sure the vocal “group” is now posters preemptively saying “the sky isn’t falling, smiths playing better now” before people can say smith shouldn’t be starting

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I find the this Smith thing to be the most interesting Flames related debate in a long time. I'm sure I come off as a Smith apologist, but I'm actually not.

I think the "mood and tone" from the Fan base towards Smith is overly negative vs. what he deserves based on his play........and for the record, I think his play in the first part of the season was every bit as terrible though as people say it was.

So I find my self asking, why do many Flames fans hate him so much? Far more hate then a player who's been here for less than 2 seasons could reasonably accumulate, especially considering he hasn't really cost this team anything. This team was in good shape for the playoffs last year prior to him getting injured, mostly on the back of his good play, and then lost the playoffs on the back of Rittich's poor play (the guy everyone loves). This season, despite his very poor play at the start of the year, the team still finds themselves in 1st overall in the West. So really, Smith hasn't cost the Flames, or us fans anything since arriving..................yet the fan base hates the guy like he pulled a Brian Elliot on us multiple playoff seasons in a row...................why?

I think the answer is a combination of the following;

1. He's old.............. This site and Flames fans have a massive bias towards younger players. Anyone over the age of 30 is immediately written off if they have a bad stretch. So the fan base just assumes there is no good hockey left in Smith, and any playing time he gets simply wasted.

2. He's old.......but for a different reason this time. As mentioned earlier, and despite my age bias comment above, the truth of the matter is Smith can't be our long term solution. This makes us itchy. We want to know our core is set........we want to know that competing for cups for the next few years is a given because we like our team...........but we can't feel completely comfortable with that if we don't know who's playing net next year. Smith doesn't provide us with this assurance.

3. Goalie PTSD. The fact that Smith is here following the Brian Elliot and Hiller / Ramo era is a huge issue. We live in fear of our goaltending being our down fall, so there is 0 patience for goalie that has shown any tendancy towards letting in bad goals. Now of course Smith would have helped his cause massively had he not been hot garbage to start this season........but, our lack of patience with him at this point in the season has more to do with our own fears then Smith's ability IMO.

4. He's not Rittich. Likely just the counter point to the he's old point, but because Rittich "could" be our long term solution due to age if he plays well, on top of Rittich being a very likable personality all adds to a bias towards Rittich. I mean let's be honest...........Rittich's strong play especially at the start of the year has helped him massively with the fans, but it's also been valued far more than Smith's recent strong play. And Rittich actually cost us the playoffs last year, much more than any of Smith's failings have to date, but we've already moved on from that.

At the end of the day, I hope Rittich is lights out tonight, and continues to work his way into the permanent #1 position for this team and is our go to come playoffs. Why? Because if he does so it's what's best for the team long term. But I think if we are being honest, Smith has played very well for this team since the new year came around (at first in limited and easy starts, up to recently with just strong performances). Last night, the loss was on him, he cost us that game, no denying. But I'd suggest our confidence in Smith after last nights game was shaken far more than it should have been considering his numbers and performance over the past 2 months.........every goalie is going to have bad games. The problem is we are still holding him accountable for his over index of bad games at the start of the season, and I think it's because of the reasons above. Just not sure it's fair.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I find the this Smith thing to be the most interesting Flames related debate in a long time. I'm sure I come off as a Smith apologist, but I'm actually not.

I think the "mood and tone" from the Fan base towards Smith is overly negative vs. what he deserves based on his play........and for the record, I think his play in the first part of the season was every bit as terrible though as people say it was.

So I find my self asking, why do many Flames fans hate him so much? Far more hate then a player who's been here for less than 2 seasons could reasonably accumulate, especially considering he hasn't really cost this team anything. This team was in good shape for the playoffs last year prior to him getting injured, mostly on the back of his good play, and then lost the playoffs on the back of Rittich's poor play (the guy everyone loves). This season, despite his very poor play at the start of the year, the team still finds themselves in 1st overall in the West. So really, Smith hasn't cost the Flames, or us fans anything since arriving..................yet the fan base hates the guy like he pulled a Brian Elliot on us multiple playoff seasons in a row...................why?

I think the answer is a combination of the following;

1. He's old.............. This site and Flames fans have a massive bias towards younger players. Anyone over the age of 30 is immediately written off if they have a bad stretch. So the fan base just assumes there is no good hockey left in Smith, and any playing time he gets simply wasted.

2. He's old.......but for a different reason this time. As mentioned earlier, and despite my age bias comment above, the truth of the matter is Smith can't be our long term solution. This makes us itchy. We want to know our core is set........we want to know that competing for cups for the next few years is a given because we like our team...........but we can't feel completely comfortable with that if we don't know who's playing net next year. Smith doesn't provide us with this assurance.

3. Goalie PTSD. The fact that Smith is here following the Brian Elliot and Hiller / Ramo era is a huge issue. We live in fear of our goaltending being our down fall, so there is 0 patience for goalie that has shown any tendancy towards letting in bad goals. Now of course Smith would have helped his cause massively had he not been hot garbage to start this season........but, our lack of patience with him at this point in the season has more to do with our own fears then Smith's ability IMO.

4. He's not Rittich. Likely just the counter point to the he's old point, but because Rittich "could" be our long term solution due to age if he plays well, on top of Rittich being a very likable personality all adds to a bias towards Rittich. I mean let's be honest...........Rittich's strong play especially at the start of the year has helped him massively with the fans, but it's also been valued far more than Smith's recent strong play. And Rittich actually cost us the playoffs last year, much more than any of Smith's failings have to date, but we've already moved on from that.

At the end of the day, I hope Rittich is lights out tonight, and continues to work his way into the permanent #1 position for this team and is our go to come playoffs. Why? Because if he does so it's what's best for the team long term. But I think if we are being honest, Smith has played very well for this team since the new year came around (at first in limited and easy starts, up to recently with just strong performances). Last night, the loss was on him, he cost us that game, no denying. But I'd suggest our confidence in Smith after last nights game was shaken far more than it should have been considering his numbers and performance over the past 2 months.........every goalie is going to have bad games. The problem is we are still holding him accountable for his over index of bad games at the start of the season, and I think it's because of the reasons above. Just not sure it's fair.

Smith has now cost us 8-10 points single handedly this season.

Pretty sure that’s the main reason for me.

But the other big reason that you overlooked was smith refusing to take responsibility and hold himself accountable back in the fall. He blamed everyone but himself and never, until it was beyond obvious to even his own mom, admitted that he cost the team a game.

If he hadn’t thrown his teammates under the bus and had “worn it” like a 36 year old veteran should then I doubt the fans turn on him so quickly

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I’m pretty sure the vocal “group” is now posters preemptively saying “the sky isn’t falling, smiths playing better now” before people can say smith shouldn’t be starting

Nah. You need to read it again

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

This...

Honestly, if anyone says smith would’ve done better in that game they are a fool.

Smith wouldve been shelled based on how poor the flames played that game...

I have not seen a single poster say this. But what I do see time and time again are attempts to dismiss this result as somehow irrelevant because of how good a team Tampa is. DeluxeMoustache has written multiple, large paragraphs amounting to nothing else but handwaving in an attempt to excuse Rittich's performance in just this one game.

I continue to see both goalies measured by different standards. Does it matter that Rittich's last two wins came against terrible NHL teams? If not, then why should it matter for Mike Smith? Does Mike Smith get blasted for allowing a terrible goal against a middling team like Minnesota? If so, then why is Rittich forgiven for a bad goal against an even worse team like Vancouver?

I like David Rittich a lot. I think he has a bright future and I hope it is in Calgary. But what drives me crazy in this is the inequity of how he is compared to his goaltending partner.

With that said, I expect Rittich to play well tonight and hope he plays a big part in the Flames blowing the doors off of Toronto.

[CanadaMatt]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

That's not really it though. Not sure there is a single poster who doesn't want to see Rittich start the playoffs, based on season to date.
There is simply a vocal 'group' crying that the sky is falling when/if Smith starts, when clearly it is not.

As someone who doesn’t have a strong opinion on this topic either way, Each side of this debate likely see the other as the vocal ‘group’.

This debate won’t end all year though. A shut out against those scum bag Leafs would be nice tonight, though!

Regardless, the topic is taking my attention away from Miley Cyrus singing The Climb over loud speaker as I shop in TD mall...she knows that she should sing through her mouth, not her nose right?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It was in context.

The Flames beat that team twice in a week with Mike Smith in net.

That team was leading the division in both instances. Very good team and Smith was very good in the one game.

The Islanders also lost to the Oilers that week. And the Caps, not that there is any shame in that. But it wasn't their best week.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

DeluxeMoustache has written multiple, large paragraphs amounting to nothing else but handwaving in an attempt to excuse Rittich's performance in just this one game.

Thanks for the mention by name. It means a lot.

You clearly missed the point.

That’s okay, it is not alone. You also have missed the point about what Smith’s words represent in terms of accountability.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Thanks for the mention by name. It means a lot.

You clearly missed the point.

That’s okay, it is not alone. You also have missed the point about what Smith’s words represent in terms of accountability.

Nothing obvious, that's for sure.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Nothing obvious, that's for sure.

None taken

[TheRealPepman]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

This team was in good shape for the playoffs last year prior to him getting injured, mostly on the back of his good play, and then lost the playoffs on the back of Rittich's poor play (the guy everyone loves)...And Rittich actually cost us the playoffs last year, much more than any of Smith's failings have to date, but we've already moved on from that.

So did the entire team. The Flames pretty much stopped playing hockey after the All-Star break. They "tanked" to give Gulutzan a big FU for not turning the Flames into the team we know now.

And do we really expect a rookie goaltender take us to the playoffs? That doesn't happen often. I'll give Rittich a free pass for the rookie mistakes he did last year. Looking back, his play pissed me off too (I recalled earlier this Fall being surprised by the Flames choosing Rittich over Gillies as a backup. But BSD did more than expected so yay.), but that was really Rittich learning the NHL game.

Finally, even though the Flames were looking like a playoff team last year, I felt that they were expected to decline and miss as the season wore on. They can't score goals to save their lives, for goodness' sake! They can't win games at the Dome often. And the defence was kinda bleh. But the way declined after the Smith injury (seven-game losing streak...)? Ooh that was brutal. I did not see that coming.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Nah. You need to read it again

I’m mostly joking

[Enoch Root]

And Rittich actually cost us the playoffs last year"

I'm sorry what?

Rittich started 16 games last year, and posted an 8-6-3 record. Suggesting he cost us the playoffs, because of a handful - no, a few - bad starts, is beyond laughable.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

If he hadn’t thrown his teammates under the bus and had “worn it” like a 36 year old veteran should then I doubt the fans turn on him so quickly

I highly doubt that him taking the blame every time he had a bad game would have made a difference to the people who dislike him. In fact I think it would just piss them off even more hearing him admit it and add even more fuel to the fire.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

It's pretty simple..........whoever has the hot hand heading into the playoffs should start.

If it's Rittich......fine. If it's Smith......fine.

I don't care who did better in October. I don't care who's doing better today. I don't care if one goalie has won a few more games or a slightly better save % at the end of the season. You start the playoffs with the hotter goalie and hope for the best. If he falters, you don't hesitate to make a switch. Seems kinda simple to me.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I highly doubt that him taking the blame every time he had a bad game would have made a difference to the people who dislike him. In fact I think it would just piss them off even more hearing him admit it and add even more fuel to the fire.

Agree to disagree I suppose.

I know I would’ve at least respected that gesture... until he kept making the same mistakes over and over

[timbit]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

It's pretty simple..........whoever has the hot hand heading into the playoffs should start.

If it's Rittich......fine. If it's Smith......fine.

I don't care who did better in October. I don't care who's doing better today. I don't care if one goalie has won a few more games or a slightly better save % at the end of the season. You start the playoffs with the hotter goalie and hope for the best. If he falters, you don't hesitate to make a switch. Seems kinda simple to me.

You are right.

I know it’s a lack of patience for some.

After 82 games, Peters will go with the goalie he feels most comfortable with winning , in the playoffs.

We just have to wait and see.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by timbit

You are right.

I know it’s a lack of patience for some.

After 82 games, Peters will go with the goalie he feels most comfortable with winning , in the playoffs.

We just have to wait and see.

And neither are above average goalies.
Lets hope one gets hot at the right time or we can outplay our opponents enough to win in spite goaltending.

The good thing is we very rarely don't look like the better team.
The bad thing is, goaltending will lose us games anyway.

[The Yen Man]

Welp, it's starting to look like I might be eating crow soon. And not the happy crow where it's because Smith has been good. But the bad crow where Rittich is starting to crumble under the pressure. So now, neither goalie look like they're the answer and are going to carry the Flames far. Man, this sucks.