Who was the best Goalie of all time?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Man go watch a Stanley Cup Final from the 70s or early 80s.

Half the team lollygags on the ice it’s like watching beer league. It comes down to the athlete himself and those athletes are no where near todays athlete.

I'm 64 years old and watched most of the Finals from the 70's and into the early 80's. It was also a different style of game back then. Players were on the ice for 2 minute plus shifts compared to the 30 seconds we see today. Players would coast with short bursts of speed when making a play.

Gretzky played in the late 70's in the WHA and then the Oilers in the 80's. Are you suggesting he isn't the best player of all time?

The 72 Summit series against the Russians was a great example of contrasting styles of play and conditioning. Team Canada learned that the Russians were a much quicker team and that they trained like the players do today. Plus the Russians played a puck possession game that NHL players weren't used too

Team Canada showed up to camp out of shape and as the series progressed so did their conditioning. In the end they adapted to the Russian game and eked out a series win over the Russians.

Today teams play a puck possession game like the Russians did in 72.

The goalies of old are simply not in the same conversation as Roy Hasek or Brodeur.

Ken Dryden and his size (6'4") plus the bigger equipment would be coveted by every team in the league.

[Boreal]

Ken Dryden played 8 years won 6 Stanley Cups, the Calder, 1 playoff MVP, 5 Vezinas, and had 11 more losses (57) than he had shut outs (46).

It’s wild.

He lost only 11 more times than he shut out the other team.

Additionally, he did this while taking a year off and away from the team to article as a law student.

He was a goaltender who knew how to win and leave on top.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...y.php?pid=1447

[cral12]

There's Hasek and then there's the rest...

[Zoller]

Hasek during those prime years was the best goaltending we've seen. I was a huge Roy fan growing up and hated the way Hasek played because I was taught the butterfly and modeled my game after Roy. However, there is no denying Hasek had the highest ceiling of the 3.

Roy is 2nd with those 3 Conn Smythe trophies. He was clutch in the playoffs.

Shoutout to Tim Thomas with arguably the greatest playoff performance by a goalie of all time in 2011 with a 0.933 save percentage!

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Ken Dryden played 8 years won 6 Stanley Cups, the Calder, 1 playoff MVP, 5 Vezinas, and had 11 more losses (57) than he had shut outs (46).

It’s wild.

He lost only 11 more times than he shut out the other team.

Additionally, he did this while taking a year off and away from the team to article as a law student.

He was a goaltender who knew how to win and leave on top.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...y.php?pid=1447

Bunny Larocque would have been a hall of famer with that team in front of him.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by troutman

Bunny Larocque would have been a hall of famer with that team in front of him.

Right.

That’s why the Habs won the 1974 Stanley Cup the year Dryden took off with Bunny Laroque between the pipes.

Oh wait… that didn’t happen.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Right.

That’s why the Habs won the 1974 Stanley Cup the year Dryden took off with Bunny Laroque between the pipes.

Oh wait… that didn’t happen.

Dryden took the year off due to a contract dispute with the Canadiens. Didn't win a Cup with Bunny Larocque so they gave Dryden the money he was asking for next season.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Dion

Dryden took the year off due to a contract dispute with the Canadiens. Didn't win a Cup with Bunny Larocque so they gave Dryden the money he was asking for next season.

Wayne Thomas was the starter that year with Bunny and Michel Plasse doing the backup work.

[GioforPM]

I was a lonely Habs fan in the late 60s early 70s. I always remember my disappointment on Saturdays when Laroque was the starter instead of Dryden. Worst nickname in hockey too.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I was a lonely Habs fan in the late 60s early 70s. I always remember my disappointment on Saturdays when Laroque was the starter instead of Dryden. Worst nickname in hockey too.

Not as bad as former Habs goalie ..... André “Red Light” Racicot

[GioforPM]

Poor old Racicot wasn’t a bad backup, despite his name.

[Sandman]

I'm going to say something controversial-I think Brodeur was overrated, as he always played on the most suffocating, stifling defensive teams in his years with the Devils. Still a great goalie, but not in the same conversation as Roy, Hasek, Sawchuk, etc.....

[GGG]

Hasak’s Olympics puts him on top. He beat team Canada alone.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by GGG

Hasak’s Olympics puts him on top. He beat team Canada alone.

USA goaltender Jim Craig beat the Russians in the Miracle On Ice, during 1980 Olympics to win Gold for his team

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I'm going to say something controversial-I think Brodeur was overrated, as he always played on the most suffocating, stifling defensive teams in his years with the Devils. Still a great goalie, but not in the same conversation as Roy, Hasek, Sawchuk, etc.....

It is not that controversial. This argument has been going on for years, and as Brodeur was breaking all of Roy's records there were plenty of dissenters who continued to insist that he was not on the same level.

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[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The argument is silly. Take prime Ovi and put him in the 70s and he probably scores 200 goals in a season.

Take prime Hasek play him in the 70s and be probably gets 50 shutouts.

Take prime Rocket Richard and play him in 2022 and he might get 5 goals in 82 games.

Todays athlete is light years ahead of athletes 50 years ago.

you're right. It is silly when you compare a player who has had an extra 50 years of hockey evolution over an era.

if you want to make it fair, plunk Hasek or Ovi into 1975, have have them having grown up in the same conditions, having them living the same way and training the same way and with getting the same medical care.

Gap isn't as far off as you'd think. Imagine Bobby Orr if he even had the sports medicine of today, and didn't have to play on #### knees his whole pro career?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is not that controversial. This argument has been going on for years, and as Brodeur was breaking all of Roy's records there were plenty of dissenters who continued to insist that he was not on the same level.

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"Breaking all of Roy's records"

lol. You mean his 237 more regular season games played and 140 more regular season wins records?

What about Roy's records for most playoff games, most playoff wins and most playoff mvps? Regular season games played and regular season wins... I'd hardly call that "breaking all of Roy's records."

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

you're right. It is silly when you compare a player who has had an extra 50 years of hockey evolution over an era.

if you want to make it fair, plunk Hasek or Ovi into 1975, have have them having grown up in the same conditions, having them living the same way and training the same way and with getting the same medical care.

Gap isn't as far off as you'd think. Imagine Bobby Orr if he even had the sports medicine of today, and didn't have to play on #### knees his whole pro career?

Exactly my point. If, if, if.

The fact of the matter is that Dryden, Plante, Sawchuk, etc would get absolutely lit up if you plunk them (unaltered) in today's NHL. Yes, maybe if they had today's training and medical care they would be great, but the fact is they didn't and don't. Therefore you can't include them in the greatest of all time conversation, despite being the greatest of their generation.

Roy, Hasek and Brodeur are the the three arguable greatest of ALL time.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The argument is silly. Take prime Ovi and put him in the 70s and he probably scores 200 goals in a season.

Take prime Hasek play him in the 70s and be probably gets 50 shutouts.

Take prime Rocket Richard and play him in 2022 and he might get 5 goals in 82 games.

Todays athlete is light years ahead of athletes 50 years ago.

Prime athletes of the past would most likely be prime athletes today. 5 goals with todays equipment and training? lol. OK.

[jayswin]

In regards to the discussion of Old players playing today or todays players playing back then, it's all moot, imo.

You put todays players back then they're probably close to the stars around them with the same training equipment etc. You put yesterdays players in today and they're probably around the same as the stars of today with the same training, equipment etc.

So the outcome of that is that you really can't use it as a point to elevate players of yesterday above those of today because at best, we don't know if they'd be any better today. So if Hasek/Brodeur/Roy are the top three than that's what you go with. You can't artificially say that older goalies would have been better with better equipment.

My personal opinion is if there's any advantage in past for present debates it's extra championships for past players with waaaay less teams in the league.