2014-2015 NBA season thread

[Senator Clay Davis]

Iguodala basically won MVP with last night's game. Bizarre choice but so be it, obviously Curry and LeBron both significantly more valuable and if Curry doesn't find his shooting stroke after game 3 Cleveland wins in 5 games, no matter what Iggy does. Indeed, writers getting too cute.

But this was the series the Cavs actually missed (and needed) Kevin Love. The Warriors can't go small ball if you can play pick and roll with either Love or LeBron always posting up someone 3-4 inches shorter (or too slow to handle them). But the Cavs pretty much have no reason they won't be back next year or for the next 2-3 years with the East as is. The Warriors could be out round 1 next year because the West is the West.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by troutman

Yes, but is the game better than it used to be? It is certainly different now.

http://grantland.com/features/the-re...t-hurting-nba/

The debate on this stuff is over. Math has won, though team-by-team personnel obviously still plays a huge role in a team’s shot-selection profile. The triumph of math has produced a fear of standardization among some NBA observers. “We shoot too many 3s now,” says Jeff Van Gundy, perhaps the closest thing the NBA has to a populist ombudsman. “We are out of whack. The numbers people have analyzed the game correctly, but we are eliminating a certain segment of NBA players.”

League officials are less concerned with uniformity and the triumph of math than they are with stylistic appeal, per several team sources who have discussed the issue with the league or attended meetings in which officials brought up the topic. The league does not want NBA basketball to look like a pickup game, and it is concerned that games with, say, 70 combined 3-point attempts would take on the feel of a ragged, me-first open gym game. This is what Stern hinted at during that April press conference: “When our teams are hot, it’s a thing of beauty. And when they’re not, they can go 3-for-41,” Stern said.

I can see how it ruins some appeal when teams do go cold.

I think it's a combination of many things. Obviously a 3 pointer is worth more than a 2, so it doesn't make sense to take long 2's analytically. I think it also speaks to the fact that nobody aspires to be Shaq anymore, rather they'd be a face up player like Kobe. You watch these finals and nobody from either team had a post player with excellent footwork. In theory Mozgoz and Thompson should've dominated on the block, yet the problem is that they lack the footwork to be a dominant against much smaller defenders. Analytically the best shot is still a close two pointer, but there just aren't many players that can create their own shot in the post anymore.

Personally, I like the ball movement in a spacious game and I enjoy watching teams like the Spurs and Warriors make other teams look clueless at times. I'll also miss the excellent footwork that some big men, like Shaq and Duncan, possessed, but it's just isn't something that is developed anymore.

[darklord700]

I don't think I like this kind of game too much. NBA is a stars league and we come here to watch stars play. 3 point barrage makes marginal players like Nocioni more valueable than they should be. And people don't play money to see Nocioni play. By the same token, this style of play decreases the value of players like Blake Griffins.

IMHO, I think the game that the Shaq and Kobe Lakers played in early 2000s was the best basketball game there should be. There's inside and outside play and if you stop one, they go to the other.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

But this was the series the Cavs actually missed (and needed) Kevin Love. The Warriors can't go small ball if you can play pick and roll with either Love or LeBron always posting up someone 3-4 inches shorter (or too slow to handle them).

They needed Love make no means about it, I just thought moreso in the way he could provide spacing for Lebron rather than posting up. The interesting thing about Dubs was that they had 5-6 players that were 6"7 making switching easy and small ball easier. I didn't think it would have been easy times for Love in the post or that the Dubs would alter their strategy much.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I don't think I like this kind of game too much. NBA is a stars league and we come here to watch stars play. 3 point barrage makes marginal players like Nocioni more valueable than they should be. And people don't play money to see Nocioni play. By the same token, this style of play decreases the value of players like Blake Griffins.

IMHO, I think the game that the Shaq and Kobe Lakers played in early 2000s was the best basketball game there should be. There's inside and outside play and if you stop one, they go to the other.

This style allows for both IMO. The Blake Griffins and the Aldridges of the world still up wonderful numbers. You can watch the Cavs isolate LeBron or Kyrie, and you can watch Pops passing machine in the Spurs.

Problem with Shaq and Kobe of the early 2000's is that there just isn't enough post players around with post moves to dominate on the inside. I don't think it's an NBA thing, I think it's how America has developed their players.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The Spurs last year played the most beautiful basketball we'll probably ever see. But I get that there's not as much appeal to guys passing, rotating and spacing in order to hit open jump shots as there is guys like Kobe and Carmelo playing 1 on 1 iso ball and making difficult shots. The Spurs approach is also about any guy on any night going for 25 points, so you can't attach yourself to a specific star.

The 3 point shot is becoming more and more prevalent and will continue to do so when you see 4 of the top 5 teams in the regular season at 3pt FG% make the conference finals (as they did this year). But that won't change unless they eliminate the line (or move it back to say 25-26 feet), because the threat of the 3pt shot opens up many driving lanes, so if you press the shooter he can blow by, and if you give him space he'll have open jump shots. The future could realistically be 35-50% of all shots will be 3's.

[darklord700]

Basketball is a game which your 12th man could make shots because it involves so much scoring. But that's not much entertaining value in seeing say, Patty Mills, good as a player he is, making shots. So I watch NBA to see Jordan, Kobe or LBJ making or missing shots and put on moves mere mortals can't even dream of. Drama sells in sports and that's why the Spurs, without any drama in the way they played, aren't a popular team.

If 33% of the shoots are threes, that would be boring. It already is kind of boring to see of this drive and kick out plays a lot of the teams play nowadays. Rules have been changed to free up shooters and now maybe rules shoot be changed to help the defenders like allowing them to hand check shooters outside of the painted area.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Oh I totally agree they need to let hand checking back in the game if it's going to become a perimeter dominant game. That's why Mike is so clearly the best ever, he dominated (and shot 50% for his career) in the era where you couldn't just be a jump shooter, you needed a well rounded game to do well.

The Spurs though should be insanely popular with how they've played since 2011. Excellent offensive basketball with terrific execution should be fawned over. If not for Ray Allen and Chris Paul they might have a 3-peat, and maybe then they'd be as popular as they should be.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by kmart

Again, I'm not a LeBron fan. I'm not even a fan of the Cavs as they made it through the NBA East, because I felt they isolated Lebron too much. I'm a fan of team basketball, to me its fun to watch. Even if Kyrie and Love were healthy it would still be a Lebron isolation fest, with Kyrie get touches here and there. Thats just what a Lebron team does though, they let him isolate.

I don't recall how busted down Wade and Bosh were, but if you choose to play with the both of them, which he did, IMO you have no excuses. Making bold comments like "not 8" doesn't help his case either. If you go the UFA route to play with better players why would you be excused? So he went 2/4 in his Miami days, thats isn't great considering the talent around him.

It wasn't like I marveled at how the Warriors beat them, I just think its satisfying that team basketball prevails.

I'm no Lebron fan either. But as a basketball fan, there is no better player than Lebron James. Ever.

Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are the epitomes of what you're saying is bad basketball. Pure scorer, isolation type players that really didn't elevate anyone else's game. But Lebron James almost averaged a triple-double (that includes assists). Lebron plays beautiful basketball - he makes the right play every single time, whether that be a shot or a pass. He's also been villanized in the past for it - where he'd pass out of a triple team to a wide open shooter for the last shot of the game.

Golden State dared Lebron to drop 50 points on them by just leaving Igoudala on him, and shutting down the rest of the team. He almost got there for 5 games, while still managing to get 9 assists and keeping his team involved. In the end, when the other team (GS) has the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh best players in the series, you can't do much, even as the greatest of all time.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by kmart

I can see how it ruins some appeal when teams do go cold.

I think it's a combination of many things. Obviously a 3 pointer is worth more than a 2, so it doesn't make sense to take long 2's analytically. I think it also speaks to the fact that nobody aspires to be Shaq anymore, rather they'd be a face up player like Kobe. You watch these finals and nobody from either team had a post player with excellent footwork. In theory Mozgoz and Thompson should've dominated on the block, yet the problem is that they lack the footwork to be a dominant against much smaller defenders. Analytically the best shot is still a close two pointer, but there just aren't many players that can create their own shot in the post anymore.

Personally, I like the ball movement in a spacious game and I enjoy watching teams like the Spurs and Warriors make other teams look clueless at times. I'll also miss the excellent footwork that some big men, like Shaq and Duncan, possessed, but it's just isn't something that is developed anymore.

I'm sure people aspire to be Shaq, it just goes to show you how amazing Shaq was in his prime. Truly unstoppable.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I'm sure people aspire to be Shaq, it just goes to show you how amazing Shaq was in his prime. Truly unstoppable.

If Shaq played in this version of the NBA he'd be dominant, but there ain't many players like that nowadays. I think facing up appeals more to the youth of today's game rather than backing down on players like Shaq did.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I'm no Lebron fan either. But as a basketball fan, there is no better player than Lebron James. Ever.

Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are the epitomes of what you're saying is bad basketball. Pure scorer, isolation type players that really didn't elevate anyone else's game. But Lebron James almost averaged a triple-double (that includes assists). Lebron plays beautiful basketball - he makes the right play every single time, whether that be a shot or a pass. He's also been villanized in the past for it - where he'd pass out of a triple team to a wide open shooter for the last shot of the game.

Golden State dared Lebron to drop 50 points on them by just leaving Igoudala on him, and shutting down the rest of the team. He almost got there for 5 games, while still managing to get 9 assists and keeping his team involved. In the end, when the other team (GS) has the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh best players in the series, you can't do much, even as the greatest of all time.

Just because I don't like the isolation brand of basketball doesn't mean that Kobe, Lebron, and Jordan shouldn't be top 10 players ever. Now the discussion of best player ever should be up for debate and everyone has their own opinions. Even Shaq stated that he would take prime Kobe over prime Lebron, and he played with both players. IMO the best title goes to Jordan.

Make no mistake about it there will only be one Lebron, but Jordan is something else with his mentality and clutch ability to make shots. Plus I'll take 6/6 over 2/6 or 2/4 (for Lebrons lack of teammates).