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A couple of possibilities include hijacking, as well as a malfunction. There's been a couple of times where the pilots didn't realize they had lost altitude until they heard water on the wings.
But if it was intact, then why no distress communication?
Just for example...lets say fuselage failure and the tail fell off. That would have caused a rapid decompression. May have disabled the cabin air and/or communications. At 35,000 feet, your time of useful consciousness is 30-60 seconds before you pass out.
Some reports suggest the plane turned around. So, hypothetically, their first act, after trying to get oxygen, could have been turning the plane around. Then, 30 seconds later, they passed out, and the plane fell to the water.
All 100% speculation, but just an example of a possible scenario.
Just for example...lets say fuselage failure and the tail fell off. That would have caused a rapid decompression. May have disabled the cabin air and/or communications. At 35,000 feet, your time of useful consciousness is 30-60 seconds before you pass out.
Some reports suggest the plane turned around. So, hypothetically, their first act, after trying to get oxygen, could have been turning the plane around. Then, 30 seconds later, they passed out, and the plane fell to the water.
All 100% speculation, but just an example of a possible scenario.
I don't think that decompression means the ultra-redundant communications systems all go down. And wouldn't the first thing to do after getting the mask on be for one of the pilots to hit the distress button or switch or whatever? Like it is set up to be easy to do in almost any scenario, or at least that's my understanding.
Something catastrophic in the air makes sense with no communications, but then you'd also think catastrophic = debris. No debris makes you think the plane hit the water mostly intact, but then even in a decompression event they still had 30-60 seconds to get a mayday out. Or up to 3 minutes as the plane was falling out of the sky and they still had oxygen.
- Plane has been lost for +60 hours now.
- SAR area covers 50 nautical miles radius.
- SAR covers possible turnback area
- Various neighbouring countries are assisting to locate missing aircrafts. 34 aircraft, 40 ships, +100 men, +1000 man hours have been deployed. Countries: Vietnam, China, Singapore, Indonesia, USA, Thailand, Australia and the Phillipines
air search daily 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., ship search continues through the night.
Nothing has been found that appears to be debris from the aircraft, let alone the aircraft
- Various reports of sighting of objects in the media. Vietnamese authorities have reported locating a piece of the aircraft - a door - but that report has not been verified officially by Vietnamese authorities today.
- SAR has spotted two areas where the aircraft's tail might be, but it turns out these sightings turn up not being pieces of the aircraft's tail.
- Oilslick samples have been sent to labs. Malaysia Air is hoping they can report the slicks some from the missing aircraft.
- "For the aircraft to just go missing just like that, from the radar blip, there are many theories that have been said in media, there are many experts around the world that have contributed knowledge about what could have happened. and as far as we are concerned, we are equally puzzled. the honourable prime minister used the word 'perplexing'. we are equally puzzled. to confirm what happened on this aircraft, we need concrete evidence, pieces of the aircraft, to do forensic study. unfortunately again, we are unable to secure any parts of the aircraft to date."
- cannot discount any possibilities, including possibility of turnback
- it is being described as an "unprecedented missing aircraft mystery"
- "we have to find the aircraft. we have to find pieces of the aircraft. this is something we have to do."
- authorities are investigating the case of two passengers on the aircraft with fraudulent passport. authorities going through all CCTV, all records.
there are issues with 5 passengers who did not fly on the aircraft. malaysian air reiderates baggage from these 5 passengers were removed.
- hostage situation remains a possibility, "looking at all angles, considering every possibility"
- "we understand you want answers from us, you want details, we are equally eager as you are to find details and parts of the aircraft and we hope you will be patient and our boys in the rescue control centre on the ships now are trying their best to locate whatever they can find in the areas that we have identified and maybe those beyond that. we are every hour, every minute, every second, looking at every inch of the sea"
Q&A tagged for length:
Spoiler!
Question: is there a possible explosion?
Answer: we are looking at every possibility.
Question: If a plane disappears, there will be a black box signal. are you detecting a black box signal?
Answer: No signal has been signal. If we had one we would tell you.
Question: Does the signal go off on it's own?
Answer: Yes
Question: will you double check areas that have already been covered?
Answer: Yes we will check, we will comb all the areas.
Q: What jurisdiction are the 2 passengers investigation?
A: Will not give you any information about the 2 passengers because it might impair the investigation.
Q: have the tech assistance teams from NTSB, Boeing, FAA, arrived?
A: The offer we got from these orgs, are here as of this morning. we will meet them as soon as possible to see how they can offer assistance. The French investigators have not arrived yet, although they offered help.
Q: Are you investigating any terrorist groups?
A: We have no information about this.
Q: will you issue the photos of the two passengers who stole passports so media can help?
A: We have to talk to the investigators about this.
Q: Who are the 5 people who did not fly in the flight and has their baggage been checked?
A: All baggage has been checked in accordance to strict protocols. All check in baggage is clean. No items that aren't supposed to be on board.
Q. How many Chinese family members will come?
A. We have made an offer to every passenger to have 2 next of kin to be flown immediately, and offer for each passenger for a total of 5 next of kin to be flown later.
Q. 2 passengers with stolen passengers have asian features. so, why wasn't any suspicion raised about asian passengers having european passports?
A. this is under the jurisdiction of the security officials.
Q. Is there a security problem at KL airport?
A. we have to get the report from the investigating team. what security being deployed now in KLA meets the requirements of the International Aviation Organization. There is an international security program we must comply with. We have done our audits on KLA. we have been audited by transport security admins from USA and Australia.
Q. Was there a delay in the official investigation of the plane disappearance?
A. we reacted properly. this is not an easy exercise. it's a big area to cover. we all have to work together to find the aircraft.
Q. is there any timeframe?
A. there is no timeframe. and if you read what happens to the airbus airfrance, it take as much as 2 years to locate the aircraft. it takes as long as it takes.
Q. how have you increased security at KLA?
A. don't want to comment. KLA complies to int'l standards.
Last edited by JonDuke; 03-09-2014 at 10:42 PM.
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Remember that Air France 447 disappeared without a trace and without communication as well.
In that situation, the Captain was in the rest-cabin and the co-pilots appeared to have made fatal piloting errors causing the plane to lose lift and stall after the autopilot disengaged due to failure of air speed sensors. Seems like things happened so fast and they were in such a panic that they didn't radio out and also made all the wrong decisions in terms of keeping the plane flying including including the youngest co-pilot continuously pulling the nose up causing the plane to literally just fall out of the sky.
Yes but air France had that automated system sending messages so they did know that something had happened because they received messages about systems failing, etc. So they knew *something* had happened even though there was no communication from the cockpit.
It's also puzzling that they haven't managed to pick up any signals from the black box(es) yet in this case.
Yes but air France had that automated system sending messages so they did know that something had happened because they received messages about systems failing, etc. So they knew *something* had happened even though there was no communication from the cockpit.
It's also puzzling that they haven't managed to pick up any signals from the black box(es) yet in this case.
This aircraft wasn't equipped to send such messages.
Last edited by KelVarnsen; 03-10-2014 at 12:08 AM.
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Just for example...lets say fuselage failure and the tail fell off. That would have caused a rapid decompression. May have disabled the cabin air and/or communications. At 35,000 feet, your time of useful consciousness is 30-60 seconds before you pass out.
Some reports suggest the plane turned around. So, hypothetically, their first act, after trying to get oxygen, could have been turning the plane around. Then, 30 seconds later, they passed out, and the plane fell to the water.
All 100% speculation, but just an example of a possible scenario.
A fuselage failure big enough to cause the tail to fall off there wouldn't be any turning around...at all. In Airliners there are backup oxygen and communications so if this happened at 35k(lots of time even in a dive) I still would think the pilots would at least found away to radio a mayday at least.
Very bizarre.
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Keep in mind that if an aircraft was in imminent peril, every last effort would be made by the pilots to bring the aircraft under control. A mayday call will not keep you from dying, and will do nothing to help the airplane. Every bit of your effort would be going to saving you and your passengers.
It is completely understandable to me why a mayday call would not be made in a situation like that, even assuming that the crew were conscious throughout.
It is also possible that for some reason (rapid decompression) that the crew may not be conscious.
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Malaysian jet may have disintegrated in mid-air: Source
Quote:
"The fact that we are unable to find any debris so far appears to indicate that the aircraft is likely to have disintegrated at around 35,000 feet," a source involved in the investigations in Malaysia told Reuters.
If the plane had plunged intact from close to its cruising altitude, breaking up only on impact with the water, search teams would have expected to find a fairly concentrated pattern of debris, said the source, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to discuss the investigation publicly.
Asked about the possibility of an explosion, such as a bomb, the source said there was no evidence yet of foul play and that the aircraft could have broken up due to mechanical causes.
In our "small world" era, it seems almost inconceivable that something as large as a 777 could simply be lost, but this just serves to highlight how little we actually see. With our fancy technology, we feel like we can see every inch of Earth's surface at a whim (with varying levels of detail depending on Google's budget). It almost seems ridiculous to think that something so big could get "lost!" But in reality, what's visible at any instant is minuscule.
I look back at WWI, WWII, and even as late as the '60s, and wonder how they could ever have conducted battle with such limited real-time visibility of the enemy. But events like this, and AF447, illustrate that we are still pretty blind in a lot of ways.
This aircraft wasn't equipped to send such messages.
All these large commercial planes are equipped with devices to send signals but generally only after a disturbance. IIRC the transmitter needs to be activated by a high G force to start working. The black box can only be heard if sonar equipment is deployed - something I don't believe will be done until they are certain its in the water.
__________________
I hate to tell you this, but I’ve just launched an air biscuit
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*Oil slick sample not from plane
*Debris found sent to forensics
*Search area expanded to 100km beginning tomorrow morning; this includes land as well
*On 2 stolen passengers, CCTV confirms all security protocols complied with by airport securities.
*The two carriers of stolen passport do not appear to be of Asian descent. But then
when asked to clarify the appearance of passengers on stolen passports, Rahman bizarrely suggested they looked like the black Italian footballer Mario Balotelli.
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All these large commercial planes are equipped with devices to send signals but generally only after a disturbance. IIRC the transmitter needs to be activated by a high G force to start working. The black box can only be heard if sonar equipment is deployed - something I don't believe will be done until they are certain its in the water.
You are discussing two different things, you are talking about what will set of the ELT. KelVarnsen is talking about the datalink option allowing the aircraft to send system messages/failures through the ACARS system to the company dispatch (which is what happened with AF 447).
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According to the latest on AvHerald a debris field has been reported:
Hong Kong's Air Traffic Control Center reported on Mar 10th 2014 around 17:30L (09:30Z) that an airliner enroute on airway L642 reported via HF radio that they saw a large field of debris at position N9.72 E107.42 about 80nm southeast of Ho Chi Minh City, about 50nm off the south-eastern coast of Vietnam in the South China Sea and about 281nm northeast of the last known radar position. Ships have been dispatched to the reported debris field.
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