[News] Flames scratch Sven...again

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

Exactly.
I am thinking it is more "hockey ops" meddling

Hahahahaah


Oh you're serious. Well Loubo has a pretty good beat on the team and he was talking on the radio today about how the coach has the final say in anything roster related, and if anything, he was saying hockey ops might be telling him that we need Baertschi developing, so if sitting him is the best way for that right now, fine, but it needs to be a priority to develop him. So most likely the meddling might keep Baertschi playing up here instead of down in Abbotsford, if there is "meddling" at all.

The fact that you think different levels of management talking about players and trying to figure out how to develop this team is called meddling is hilarious though. What, should Feaster and Burke just sit in their offices and keep Hartley in the dark about everything, aka Sutter vs Sutter?

[djsFlames]

Bring in Horak, Knight. Keep Sven in ffs.

Take out Jackman, rotate Knight and Colborne. Just what I would do.

[SeanCharles]

Relax guys...

Sven is my fav player so trust me I want him to play.

But he is young and he is driven. He wants to be a top player and perhaps Hartley realizes the best way to help him achieve that is to challenge him to be better.

He has not ever been one of the worst players on the team in any game played. Him sitting is Hartley telling him he knows what he can do and he expects effort to achieve that level of play every shift.

I watch the games and I can see a player who can become a franchise cornerstone in him. So it is important to develop him properly. Hartley has developed plenty of high end players in his days so we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Remember how good he played right after he sat last game? He is just fighting it right now and as soon as he gets a couple bounces and a few go in for him he will build his confidence. When that happens he will be given more ice time and the sky is the limit for him.

At least we have players like Sven, Monahan, Brodie and even Gaudreau, Gillies, Jankowski and Poirier to worry about to the point where we scrutinize everything that occurs along the way on their road to becoming consistent NHLers.

Point is Hartley is a coach I actually like. He frustrates me in his lineup decisions but I still like the direction he is leading this team so give him the benefit of the doubt.

When Sven turns out great you'll forget all about your Hartley hate...

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Don't like the way the Flames run their team? There's 29 others you can cheer for. Hell, the one up the #2 plays kids all the time and screws the vets who got them nowhere.

Now that's one hell of a rebuttal Frank.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by Rerun

What? Someone telling the coach which players he can play and which ones he should sit? .... and Hartley doing it?

If this is true, my respect for Hartley has dropped considerably.

Well, um, ok... explain then exactly what Burke is then relative to Feaster? If the organization is going to permit a GM and um??? an um... Sr GM? Where then possibly does the couch stand in terms of clout?

[Rerun]

Traditionally its always been the coach who decides which players to play and which players to sit.
Once the GM starts telling the coach who should play and who shouldn't its a slippery slope and pretty soon he's telling the coach who should get the most ice time.

Edit: Just to be clear, I think the decision to bench Sven was all Hartley's, as is his right as the coach. But if it wasn't, Hartley should pull his nose out of Burke's ass.

[Dion]

[Dienasty]

I have no problem with him sitting, as long as he is back in next game.

I think baertschi looked pretty bad after taking that slap shot in the chest from wideman. Hopefully this was more about maintenance then anything.

Also the flames are 0-2 Getting outscored 10-2 in the two games he has sat... More a coincidence but fun to note.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Relax guys...

Sven is my fav player so trust me I want him to play.

But he is young and he is driven. He wants to be a top player and perhaps Hartley realizes the best way to help him achieve that is to challenge him to be better.

He has not ever been one of the worst players on the team in any game played. Him sitting is Hartley telling him he knows what he can do and he expects effort to achieve that level of play every shift.

I watch the games and I can see a player who can become a franchise cornerstone in him. So it is important to develop him properly. Hartley has developed plenty of high end players in his days so we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Remember how good he played right after he sat last game? He is just fighting it right now and as soon as he gets a couple bounces and a few go in for him he will build his confidence. When that happens he will be given more ice time and the sky is the limit for him.

At least we have players like Sven, Monahan, Brodie and even Gaudreau, Gillies, Jankowski and Poirier to worry about to the point where we scrutinize everything that occurs along the way on their road to becoming consistent NHLers.

Point is Hartley is a coach I actually like. He frustrates me in his lineup decisions but I still like the direction he is leading this team so give him the benefit of the doubt.

When Sven turns out great you'll forget all about your Hartley hate...

I agree with your take on Sven's potential long range importance to the team, however when you've been here long enough to see us lose some of the best players in the league, because we failed to appreciate their long range ability, there's a tendency to relate back to those disastrous moves by management. I hope Burke and Hartley can see his potential, and not write him off because of his relatively smaller size, and somewhat slow start.

Certainly benching him for the odd game shouldn't hurt his development, however that, coupled with Burke's reprimand in the press, is somewhat disturbing for me. He's still a very young player, and I wouldn't want him to fail for lack of confidence.

[Bertuzzied]

One thing i don't get is that if Burke and Hartley have a problem with Sven in the defensive zone why the crap is he not on our god awful powerplay? in fact if he is that bad 5on5 he should be given the full 2 minutes on every pp.

[doctajones428]

Heaven forbid we don't spoon feed minutes to our young players like Edmonton does. Do we want Sven to have 15 shoulder surgeries before his ELC is up?

Anyways, Baertschi will more than likely be back in next game, just like last time. Also, please scratch Glencross

[dean00007]

I admit, I didn't watch the game tonight.

I figured why? The team takes on a much different dimension when Sven is in the lineup. As for Sven not playing defensive enough. GIVE ME A BREAK! I for years harped on Iggy not playing defense and being selfish. I love defensive hockey, but for some reason this Flames team seems to see something that doesn't exist in my mind. This team is going to turn Baerchi into another Backlund, where the play is preached defense and he loses his offensive flair. The veterans so far have escaped the wrath of sitting out due to mistakes, the rookies have played beyond anyone's expectations so far.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I agree with your take on Sven's potential long range importance to the team, however when you've been here long enough to see us lose some of the best players in the league, because we failed to appreciate their long range ability, there's a tendency to relate back to those disastrous moves by management. I hope Burke and Hartley can see his potential, and not write him off because of his relatively smaller size, and somewhat slow start.

Certainly benching him for the odd game shouldn't hurt his development, however that, coupled with Burke's reprimand in the press, is somewhat disturbing for me. He's still a very young player, and I wouldn't want him to fail for lack of confidence.

Fans and management have built up too high of an expectation for Svend. His great sucess during his emergency call up of a few years back was the worst thing that could have happened. Fans think he is going to be a superstar and look at the coaching staff and management as scapegoats when expectations are not being realised. He shouldn't be benched, he's not getting enough minutes or he's not playing with the right players.

Over the years a lot of highly touted players struggled when they reached the NHL level. A few even fizzled out and never lived up to thier billing and disappeared from the game. In many cases they couldn't elevate thier game to the pro level.

It's my opinion that Svend is having a real hard time adapting to the pro level. It's not like the emergency call up when opposition teams didn't know much about the kid and he could do what he wanted. Things have changed and teams are aware of Svend making it harder for him to produce at the pro level. His size and how easily he is knocked off the puck is hurting him right now. He needs to bulk up more to compensate for his lack of size. He also needs to get tougher mentally so he can better handle the frustrations of his game. Not get down on himself when things are not going well and use that as motivation to work harder. Right now he's too fragile when it comes to his confidence and that needs to change in a hurry.

[Hanna Sniper]

He's got 1G and 4A in 13 games, its not going to cut it when you are not the defensive player on your line

[stemit14]

I think everyone is reading into sven's game a little too much... I think he has played well and his only issue right now is confidence. He has shown that he can produce at a point-per-game pace at the pro level when he is given top minutes and he had confidence. Pucks have been bouncing on him and players he has set up haven't put the puck in the net.

I think it's ok to bench him or sit him when he is struggling since he is still learning to be a pro... But we all know he's going to break out and go on a tear when he does get his confidence back. I just hope Hartley will be as quick to reward baertschi when that happens as he was to punish him for the slightest of miscues.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by dean00007

I admit, I didn't watch the game tonight.

I figured why? The team takes on a much different dimension when Sven is in the lineup. As for Sven not playing defensive enough. GIVE ME A BREAK! I for years harped on Iggy not playing defense and being selfish. I love defensive hockey, but for some reason this Flames team seems to see something that doesn't exist in my mind. This team is going to turn Baerchi into another Backlund, where the play is preached defense and he loses his offensive flair. The veterans so far have escaped the wrath of sitting out due to mistakes, the rookies have played beyond anyone's expectations so far.

Lol @ Offensive flair!
These guys sit because they are not strong on the puck and when they have it, they make poor decisions. I remember the year they started Iggy with Backlund and as soon as he left the line, Iggy was potting goals left, right,centre. Its the same with Sven, It's not just about the player, its about the guys on his line.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

He's got 1G and 4A in 13 games, its not going to cut it when you are not the defensive player on your line

Actually, one could make the case that he has been the defensive player on the line.

It is usually him who is the first back-checker. It is often him that is the deep guy in the corner helping the defenseman recover the puck.

This has been part of the reason that Hudler has been in a position to have a strong year offensively.

If you think it has been Monahan that has been the defensive stalwart on that line, I suggest you look a little closer.

(not trying to say Baertschi has been awesome defensively or anything, just saying he has, at the very least, been carrying his weight on that line)

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Actually, one could make the case that he has been the defensive player on the line.

It is usually him who is the first back-checker. It is often him that is the deep guy in the corner helping the defenseman recover the puck.

This has been part of the reason that Hudler has been in a position to have a strong year offensively.

If you think it has been Monahan that has been the defensive stalwart on that line, I suggest you look a little closer.

(not trying to say Baertschi has been awesome defensively or anything, just saying he has, at the very least, been carrying his weight on that line)

I agree with that. I also believe the reason Baertschi is being scratched is because he isn't playing a good 3 zone game. He has been very mediocre in the offensive zone the past few games, and I believe that's a big reason why he's sitting. It's not because he's not focusing on D, he's swinging too far the other way right now, and Hartley wants him to understand that he can do both at the same time, and trying to point out when to tighten up defensively and when to start free-wheeling.

[Bourque's Twin]

I'm not a GM, scout, coach, or anything. My hockey experience consists of high-level minor hockey.

But, I want to ask if I am the only who sees Baertschi looking good in all 3 zones when he plays.

I mean, he's not Monahan on the back check or Backlund on the forecheck but he is certainly skating really hard every shift and in every zone, unlike Glencross.

[Phil Russell]

The amount of speculation being peddled as fact in this thread is large. Sitting is a part of the learning process for most rookies and none of us know what is going on behind closed doors. I see no reason to panic at this point. Sitting Sven is not costing us games. We have no reason to believe that it is destroying his confidence. Sitting rookies is not counter to meritocracy--rookies often sit. And they sit for a number of reasons that may have nothing to do with performance relative to other players. Chill.