The Flames Not As Weak As Many Believe

[Vulcan]

I don't see the comparison of Backlund to Kesler. The way I remember it, Kesler was going to be a shutdown centre and his offensive contributions have been a pleasant surprise. That doesn't describe Backlund although I have hope Backlund will turn out to be a decent 1a or 2nd line centre.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I don't see the comparison of Backlund to Kesler.

Ryan Kesler:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=67780


Mikael Backlund:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=104255


They both were drafted at around the same spot (Kesler was #23, Backlund was #24), they're both two-way centers, they're both really good possession players (Corsi), they have almost identical rate stats at the same point in their careers. I don't think there is a single player in the NHL that Backlund compares better to then Kesler.

[Tinordi]

Except for the fact that Kesler is light years better than Backlund right now.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Except for the fact that Kesler is light years better than Backlund right now.

And hasn't lost the respect of his peers by posing nude in magazines and/or practicing perfect diving in the basement.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Except for the fact that Kesler is light years better than Backlund right now.

Right now... if you look at them in a same career time comparison is when you see the simularities. Backlund right now versus 07-08 Kesler, not a fully developed 12-13 Kesler with 5 years more experience.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Right now... if you look at them in a same career time comparison is when you see the simularities. Backlund right now versus 07-08 Kesler, not a fully developed 12-13 Kesler with 5 years more experience.

Sure and if Backlund turned into the next Kesler I'd be over the moon.

I'm not holding my breath.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Right now... if you look at them in a same career time comparison is when you see the simularities. Backlund right now versus 07-08 Kesler, not a fully developed 12-13 Kesler with 5 years more experience.

Kesler put up 59 points in his 6th year after being drafted (where Backlund is this season) and 75 points in his 7th year (where Backlund will be next year). I don't see Backlund getting near either of those totals in a full season. Kesler is also bigger, faster, stronger, and better defensively.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Kesler put up 59 points in his 6th year after being drafted (where Backlund is this season) and 75 points in his 7th year (where Backlund will be next year). I don't see Backlund getting near either of those totals in a full season. Kesler is also bigger, faster, stronger, and better defensively.

Kesler is the better player in every aspect of the game right now. Maybe Backlund emerges and blows everyone's socks off but the Kesler comparison is kool-aid induced at this point.

[sa226]

Is this what it is like when posters from CP visit other forums, and then report back: "Haha, those guys are comparing Kesler to Backlund! Haha"

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by moon

It's not pessimism its looking at his track record and what he has shown on the ice. I doubt you find a non-Flames fan that thinks he has a shot at a 1 line center and doubtful without homer glasses on that he is seen as a likely 2nd line guy either.

Backlund is a useful, homegrown third-line centre. And there's nothing wrong with that. Few players ever meet their top projection, and 2nd line center was about the best Backlund was ever projected to be.

Brodie is similar. He's a good 3rd/4th puck moving defenceman. But he'll never be a guy who plays big minutes against the opposition's top line, or takes over a game with his offense. Again, there's nothing wrong with that. But let's not kid ourselves that the Flames are halfway to having an elite young core.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I don't see the comparison of Backlund to Kesler. The way I remember it, Kesler was going to be a shutdown centre and his offensive contributions have been a pleasant surprise. That doesn't describe Backlund although I have hope Backlund will turn out to be a decent 1a or 2nd line centre.

It was clear Kesler had great potential, otherwise the Flyers wouldn't have extended him that offer sheet.

[$ven27]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Except for the fact that Kesler is light years better than Backlund right now.

Really? News to me.

[Tinordi]

Yes yes, I know we all love to hate the Canucks and Kesler in particular but him on the 2013 Flames roster and he's immediately and unquestionably the best player on the team. Can we say that will be case for Backlund next year?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It was clear Kesler had great potential, otherwise the Flyers wouldn't have extended him that offer sheet.

The way I remember it Clarke was looking at him as a shutdown centre. Has Backlund ever been described like that?

I also looked at it as a shot at Nonis and not a real play at Kesler.

Not really sure what your point is.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The way I remember it Clarke was looking at him as a shutdown centre. Has Backlund ever been described like that?

I also looked at it as a shot at Nonis and not a real play at Kesler.

Not really sure what your point is.

The Flyers thought Kesler was going to be an impact player. That's my point. Articles at the time refer to Kesler as a 'prized prospect'. I doubt teams will be falling all over each other to sign Backlund to an offer sheet. He's a decent player, but Kesler was more highly regarded at his age.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Five or six. For example:

Chicago: Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook.

Boston: Bergeron, Krejci, Seguin, Marchand, Chara, Rask.

Pittsburgh: Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Letang, Fleury.

LA: Kopitar, Carter, Richards, Brown, Doughty, Quick.


I highly doubt Backlund or Brodie reach the level of any of those players. Baertschi maybe, which is why I consider him a possible core piece going forward.

Remember, the Flames of the future aren't competing against past versions of the Flames - they're competing against elite rivals. We have one young blue-chipper and a couple other legitimate NHLers. OK. Others teams have more. Would you rather have Backlund, Brodie, and Baertschi, or:

Price, Subban, Paccioretty, Gallagher, and Galchenyuk

Hall, RNH, Eberle, Schultz, and Yakupov

Karlsson, Zibanejad, Turris, Connacher ,and Lehner

Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, and Stastny

Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Read, B Schenn, and Couturier

Berglund, Stewart, Perron, Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Tarasenko, and Allen

does your second group ever get to be as good as your first group.....


Will Hall, RNH, Eberle, Schultz, and Yakupov ever be as good as Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook?? Are Hall/Eberle and RHN all of the sudden going to turn into Kane and Toews??? When Toews and kane were these guys age they were leading their team to the SC.

Will Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, and Stastny ever be on a playoff team Unless some goalie plays out of his mind and carries them like Anderson did in 2009-10?

Stastny is 27 years old and Cammalleri and Tanguay have out performed him for the last 3 years. If he was a Flame we would be considering buying out his contract.

Giroux and Voracek seem to be the real deal but Read? He is 26... He isn't as good as Glencross and isn't as good as Glencross at 26. What has Couturier accomplished more than Horak? Briere gets hurt and these core prospects lead them to a 5 pt lead on the Flames!!!


I think you have a case of the greener grass syndrome....

[afc wimbledon]

I think you have a case of the greener grass syndrome....

When your lawn looks like this its hard not to though

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

does your second group ever get to be as good as your first group.....


Will Hall, RNH, Eberle, Schultz, and Yakupov ever be as good as Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook?? Are Hall/Eberle and RHN all of the sudden going to turn into Kane and Toews??? When Toews and kane were these guys age they were leading their team to the SC.

Will Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, and Stastny ever be on a playoff team Unless some goalie plays out of his mind and carries them like Anderson did in 2009-10?

Stastny is 27 years old and Cammalleri and Tanguay have out performed him for the last 3 years. If he was a Flame we would be considering buying out his contract.

Giroux and Voracek seem to be the real deal but Read? He is 26... He isn't as good as Glencross and isn't as good as Glencross at 26. What has Couturier accomplished more than Horak? Briere gets hurt and these core prospects lead them to a 5 pt lead on the Flames!!!


I think you have a case of the greener grass syndrome....

What is the point of this rant?

[Parallex]

Kesler put up 37 points in his third full year in the league where Backlund is now, prorate Backlunds totals over a full 82 game season and he's at 39.

I don't think projecting him to be a Kesler like player is kool-aid induced... I think it's a reasonably optimistic projection. If I was saying that he'd be Malkin or Crosby that would be kool-aid induced but I'm not I'm saying that. I'm saying he has a decent chance of becoming a hard-minute, two-way center, with roughly a PPG% of around 0.80 on a good team in his prime... which is essentually what Kesler is to the Canucks. That's not even close to kool-aid territory.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

The fact that we have to prorate Backlunds totals is part of what makes his numbers not comparible ot Kesler's. The fact that Kesler was physically capable of playing full seasons for much of his early career makes a big difference.