Quit on the team? He looked like a guy struggling to fit in on a new team after just winning the cup after a very grueling and physical playoff run, especially for him. I doubt he was in tip top shape after that summer. Once he got situated and comfortable he looked fine
Kadri started the 2022-23 season with the Flames with 4 goals, 9 points in the first 6 games. Through the first 12 games he had 7 goals, and 12 points. It wasn't a case of struggling to fit in.
What I reference as him quitting on the team was the effort against CHI when the Flames were 2 points behind WPG for the last Wildcard spot in the West, after winning 4 in a row with 5 games remaining.
You can watch Kadri on the 2nd and 3rd Blackhawks goals, when the season was on the line, against the last place team.
It doesn't really matter. Overall I've been very happy with Kadri here. I thought he was the best forward for the Flames over the last couple of years, and more than outperformed his contract. That said, saying it was all roses is also a bit of a revisionist history.
Does the way the Flames handle Kadri effect other players under the same agent? other players from other agents?
Does their chance of signing the next piece they want to sign diminish because they took a guy that signed a 7 year deal and followed his contract to the letter of the law and took the personal part out of it?
A lot of this has to do with how desirable the location is in the first place. I think the answers to all of these questions are different for different teams. Las Vegas has shown to not really give a damn about the feelings of their players when making roster decisions, and to this point they seem to have not been too negatively affected by it. I think that is because it a desirable location to play in for a multitude of reasons.
The Flames, Oilers, Jets,or Sabres don't get the same leeway. Probably never will. This could change for the Knights too I suppose if the winning seasons stop.
The smaller less desirable locations are probably best served if they have a history of being a player friendly destination. Could be seen as a benefit that helps them to overcome player concerns that might exist about the weather, taxes, facilities etc.
I seem to recall reading Mercer+Nemec+1st to VCR for Hughes.
Would VCR like to add a cap dump? Does NJ need to add a prospect?
Is there enough ice for Dougie and the Hughes bros?
I would think Mercer and Nemec would be pretty close by themselves. I would call that a good hockey trade. But, I'm not as huge a Hughes fan as most. I concede he's a great player, just not as great as most think.
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Kadri started the 2022-23 season with the Flames with 4 goals, 9 points in the first 6 games. Through the first 12 games he had 7 goals, and 12 points. It wasn't a case of struggling to fit in.
What I reference as him quitting on the team was the effort against CHI when the Flames were 2 points behind WPG for the last Wildcard spot in the West, after winning 4 in a row with 5 games remaining.
You can watch Kadri on the 2nd and 3rd Blackhawks goals, when the season was on the line, against the last place team.
It doesn't really matter. Overall I've been very happy with Kadri here. I thought he was the best forward for the Flames over the last couple of years, and more than outperformed his contract. That said, saying it was all roses is also a bit of a revisionist history.
If you have Close-captioned turned on, at 6:00 of that video, Hrudey calls Ball "Little Hitler Rick". No wonder he left for Chicago!
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"9 out of 10 concerns are completely unfounded."
"The first thing that goes when you lose your hands, are your fine motor skills."
Kadri definitely had some "controller off" moments in that first year and games that left alot to be desired effort wise.
It wasn't a fun year for the players and it was obvious.
I still would be interested in an Utah trade. They seem to have pressure to be more exciting. Rasmus or Coleman there would be interesting
I don't think they're a playoff team yet. I doubt they are buyers unless they actually get back into a playoff position. .518 point % isn't going to do it.
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I don't think they're a playoff team yet. I doubt they are buyers unless they actually get back into a playoff position. .518 point % isn't going to do it.
I doubt they sit tight and don’t do anything. They have already made trades where they moved out prospects and futures for older players (Marino, Sergachev, Durzi, Maatta). Suspect they continue to trade picks and prospects to improve their team.
If I was then I would be looking at a guy like Coleman to see if you can turn Hayton into something useful like a solid 3rd line center.
Last edited by Aarongavey; 12-04-2025 at 07:06 PM.
Kadri did look like he quit on the team. I hated him.
However, Was it an issue with Sutter? If so.. I don't care because he still quit on the team, full-stop.
However, was it an injury he was trying to play through? Gets an A from me. Maybe he simply ran out of gas after winning the cup in Colorado and he simply had absolutely nothing left? Well, that's still hero marks for showing up, right?
I don't think anyone really KNOWS. People here think they know, and they certainly like to speculate, but nobody knows why Kadri looked like he quit on the team in that first season. That's fine. Even if he did quit, well, he certainly hasn't since that season, right? So worst case scenario he simply decided not to play hard for reasons, he seemed to rectify that from then on. So who cares any longer?
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I think holding yourself to this level of accountability is unnecessary, personally.
Yes, the Flames are an undesirable market. The new building will help with that.
No, they shouldn't act like jerks and treat their employees terribly when they part ways.
But at the end of the day, if I'm considering the Flames as a free agent and a former player is badmouthing the team for operating within their rights (i.e. trading to a team not on a NTC), I'd be skeptical of the source. As long as it's not done in a hostile fashion, go and do what makes best business sense.
The Flames already operate at enough of a disadvantage in other areas. Best to not handcuff what you can do on the trade market to protect a perceived fragile reputation.
It’s not a “perceived fragile reputation,” it’s the realities of the market.
I find this whole conversation kind of odd. There are different ways to run a business, and outside of those who run terrible businesses, I think we all have enough personal experience in the business world to acknowledge that how people do business matters, and those who treat people well have an advantage, while people who operate however they want and disregard the human side of things just because it’s their right to do so rarely attract anything positive.
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It’s not a “perceived fragile reputation,” it’s the realities of the market.
I find this whole conversation kind of odd. There are different ways to run a business, and outside of those who run terrible businesses, I think we all have enough personal experience in the business world to acknowledge that how people do business matters, and those who treat people well have an advantage, while people who operate however they want and disregard the human side of things just because it’s their right to do so rarely attract anything positive.
I find the conversation quite odd as well but for completely different reasons.
The reality is if the Flames are a bad team it is a tough market to get players to come to but we have witnessed several high end free agents sign here in the last decade. Kadri was the second biggest UFA in 2022, Markstrom was among the top free agents in 2020. If this team is good, players have interest in coming here and new facilities on the way will help with that once this team is on the rise.
It seems like some are implying the flames are attempting to send Kadri to a team he absolutely is against and if he says no he is put on waivers. All people are suggesting is they work within the framework of the agreement and negotiate with the 18 teams that are not on the no trade list. If he only wants to play in Canada you can try to accommodate but if the best offer is coming from Utah and they are not on the list then the team needs to do what is best for the organization.
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I find the conversation quite odd as well but for completely different reasons.
The reality is if the Flames are a bad team it is a tough market to get players to come to but we have witnessed several high end free agents sign here in the last decade. Kadri was the second biggest UFA in 2022, Markstrom was among the top free agents in 2020. If this team is good, players have interest in coming here and new facilities on the way will help with that once this team is on the rise.
It seems like some are implying the flames are attempting to send Kadri to a team he absolutely is against and if he says no he is put on waivers. All people are suggesting is they work within the framework of the agreement and negotiate with the 18 teams that are not on the no trade list. If he only wants to play in Canada you can try to accommodate but if the best offer is coming from Utah and they are not on the list then the team needs to do what is best for the organization.
Winning is not the salve you think it is for less desirable markets. There’s a reason Winnipeg and Edmonton aren’t attracting the best of the best despite their relative success and quality of the buildings. It’s an unfortunate reality but it is one all the same. Edmonton has two of the best players in the world and have been to the finals twice and still has to overpay vets just to go there.
“All people are suggesting” is taking emotion out of it, not being “nice,” treating it “like a business,” and “doing right” by following the letter of the contract. What’s being pointed out in response is that there are other ways to do business that need to be considered, especially when you’re a less desirable market and your business is heavily reliant on personalities and relationships.
Whether we like to think so or not, “what’s best for the organization” may not be taking the hypothetical Utah deal instead of the hypothetical Montreal one, even if it is better. It’s not a great reality, but it’s the only one.
Winning is not the salve you think it is for less desirable markets. There’s a reason Winnipeg and Edmonton aren’t attracting the best of the best despite their relative success and quality of the buildings. It’s an unfortunate reality but it is one all the same. Edmonton has two of the best players in the world and have been to the finals twice and still has to overpay vets just to go there.
“All people are suggesting” is taking emotion out of it, not being “nice,” treating it “like a business,” and “doing right” by following the letter of the contract. What’s being pointed out in response is that there are other ways to do business that need to be considered, especially when you’re a less desirable market and your business is heavily reliant on personalities and relationships.
Whether we like to think so or not, “what’s best for the organization” may not be taking the hypothetical Utah deal instead of the hypothetical Montreal one, even if it is better. It’s not a great reality, but it’s the only one.
I'd argue that winning is a bigger factor than the "desirability" of the market for attracting players. Nobody wanted to play in Florida and Tampa for years until they started winning. Even Pittsburgh almost folded as a franchise after Lemieux and before they drafted Crosby. Pittsburgh can probably be categorized as an undesirable market but they have survived and attracted free agent signings because they drafted super stars and started winning. Chicago as an original 6 team was not attracting anyone in the mid 90s to early 2000s as well.
Well run organizations who win are the biggest factors in attracting players. You see small and undesirable markets succeed in every sport while world class or low tax cities struggle. City characteristics such as being low tax, a massive market for sponsorships, a warmer climate, celebrity friendly and so on just become additional talking points when those city do win. That's not to say that they aren't advantages though. If winning and organizational success is comparable the "desirability" of a city may very well be the deciding factor.
As for Edmonton. If they weren't such a poorly run organization who tried short cut their re-build and ran into cap hell... I would wager there would have been many players who were willing to sign there for less for a real shot at winning the cup just as they did in Pittsburgh with Crosby. By the time they started becoming serious contenders in McDavid's career they had no draft capital, depth and youth while being right up against the cap the whole time. McDavid and Draisaitl dragged those teams there in spite of it all.
Winnipeg has had some good regular seasons but it hasn't been as consistent and they've had very little playoff success so I don't think many view them as true contenders although they have been able to sign most of their own home grown players.
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The Pens weren’t in trouble “after Lemieux”. They didn’t become successful again because they got superstars and started winning?. Lemieux still technically played for Pittsburgh when they went bankrupt. Jagr was on the team then as well, scoring 127 points. That’s why Lemieux is a part owner - they owed him money for deferred salaries and he made a deal to get them out of Ch 11. And they were winning - in the POs every year and got to round three a couple years before and a year afterwards.
And then traded Jagr to get out from under his salary, and they finished out of the POs, and a year later they were tanking.
Last edited by GioforPM; 12-04-2025 at 11:08 PM.
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