Former Flames player performance thread - 2022/23 season

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Where did that number come from? Is this something confirmed somewhere, or just blind speculation?

I would bet the number on a long term deal would have been closer to what his qualifying offer would have been, hence why the bridge deal was for what it was. The dollar amount in the bridge was significant as well, so I am guessing that Treliving believed in him to a very large degree. Making it sound like Tkachuk just came out of nowhere to meet those salary expectations sounds more like revisionist history to me.

Sure, it would have a risk to sign him long term at the time, but a pretty reasonable risk given his age and what he had accomplished up until that point. A lot of people were thinking Buffalo were crazy for signing Thompson to a long term deal when they did, but sometimes teams need to take those chances.

Posters who say even "McDavid money" would have been acceptable to pay Tkachuk heading into 2019-20. We all figured he'd be good - he was scoring a lot (though 24 were PPP and a bunch - maybe 10 - more were with Lindholm and Monahan).

As it was he became the highest paid Flame. I'm not sure he'd have even accepted 11x8 versus $7Mx3 plus a guranatee of a 4th year at $9M and then UFA. I think he wanted out from day one.

[SuperMatt18]

I think if you could have gotten Tkachuk to sign at $9 x 8 that probably would have been fine in 2019.

But if they would have paid him anything more than that they would have been criticized at the time.

Tkachuk will always say what he thinks the media/fanbase wants him to say, there is no honestly in what he tells the media. He can say he would have signed long term here all he wants but I highly doubt it unless it was $10M x 8 back in 2019.

[FanIn80]

The entire team played like ass during the "Canadian division" season. Tkachuk checked out no more than anyone (everyone) else did.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think if you could have gotten Tkachuk to sign at $9 x 8 that probably would have been fine in 2019.

But if they would have paid him anything more than that they would have been criticized at the time.

Tkachuk will always say what he thinks the media/fanbase wants him to say, there is no honestly in what he tells the media. He can say he would have signed long term here all he wants but I highly doubt it unless it was $10M x 8 back in 2019.

I tend to believe Tkatchuk would have been ok to sign an $8M x 8 years coming out of his ELC. It would have made him a UFA at age 29, where he can sign one more monster deal (assuming he believes in his own playing ability). That would have been the way to max out his earnings, and also why I believe Brady was willing to sign that in Ottawa.

[Monahammer]

Brady signed in a worse market by far than ours.

There's the proof you need that Tkachuk would have done it if the money were there. And yeah, all of those guys and the GMs who signed giant 10mil 8 year contracts caught criticism. But almost all those deals (except for Huberdeaus) look just fine now. IMO it has become clear that the best path to take was to offer Tkachuk whatever he wanted. We didn't do that, and that was a mistake. I am not trying to argue that we go back in time, just that we recognize that mistake in hopes that we never make it again. I doubt that the organization will though.

[The Yen Man]

It's the same play for Drasiaitl. Oilers took a risk signing him to $8M x 8 years, but that contract is a steal now. And it worked out for Draisaitl too. He lived up to his own potential, and he will be getting a monster deal in 2 years, probably 7 x $12M or something around that number (or 8 x $12M if Oilers convince him to stay).

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Brady signed in a worse market by far than ours.

There's the proof you need that Tkachuk would have done it if the money were there. And yeah, all of those guys and the GMs who signed giant 10mil 8 year contracts caught criticism. But almost all those deals (except for Huberdeaus) look just fine now. IMO it has become clear that the best path to take was to offer Tkachuk whatever he wanted. We didn't do that, and that was a mistake. I am not trying to argue that we go back in time, just that we recognize that mistake in hopes that we never make it again. I doubt that the organization will though.

He is a worse player and signed for over 8M

also, they don't share a brain...look at Matt's list of teams

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by dino7c

He is a worse player and signed for over 8M

also, they don't share a brain...look at Matt's list of teams

Yeah but that was the proof so case closed.

Matt would have signed because Brady signed a few years later.

Same guy also said we should have gone all in on Mark Stone the same offseason Tkachuk was a RFA.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I tend to believe Tkatchuk would have been ok to sign an $8M x 8 years coming out of his ELC. It would have made him a UFA at age 29, where he can sign one more monster deal (assuming he believes in his own playing ability). That would have been the way to max out his earnings, and also why I believe Brady was willing to sign that in Ottawa.

Dont think so.

The delta between a $7M x 3 with a $9M poison pill at the end of it and a $8M x 8 isnt big enough. Flames easily do $8M x 8.

Brady signed $8.2M x 7 coming off a pro-rated 53 point season.

Matthew was coming off a 77 point season. It's not comparable production and Matthew was way more proven offensively at the time of signing.

The long term contract started with a $9M from Matthew's camp, guarantee it.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Dont think so.

The delta between a $7M x 3 with a $9M poison pill at the end of it and a $8M x 8 isnt big enough. Flames easily do $8M x 8.

Brady signed $8.2M x 7 coming off a pro-rated 53 point season.

Matthew was coming off a 77 point season. It's not comparable production and Matthew was way more proven offensively at the time of signing.

The long term contract started with a $9M from Matthew's camp, guarantee it.

Sure, but Tre would have came in at $7M, and they would have met in the middle at $8M.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Sure, but Tre would have came in at $7M, and they would have met in the middle at $8M.

Don't think it's that simple as meeting at the middle.

A bunch of RFA signed bridge deals that offseason the market was stuck for a very long time. The ones who signed long term got big deals.

[Jason14h]

Who cares if it’s 9 or 8

That million makes no difference per season long term

It’s having the elite talent that matters

It’s why every other team is locking up their younger players long term

Sure you will occasionally get burned /overpay

But you can not win without the elite talent potential these players have

Unless you want to overpay UFAs which the Flames love to do

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Sure, but Tre would have came in at $7M, and they would have met in the middle at $8M.

It was never coming in at $8M. Calgary went 3 years because they couldn’t afford the cap hit at 8 years. If that was $8M, Calgary would have jumped at it.

Negotiations are seldom “let’s meet in the middle “ LOL.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Who cares if it’s 9 or 8

That million makes no difference per season long term

It’s having the elite talent that matters

It’s why every other team is locking up their younger players long term

Sure you will occasionally get burned /overpay

But you can not win without the elite talent potential these players have

Unless you want to overpay UFAs which the Flames love to do

9 still probably doesn’t it done. Tkachuk was banking on a minimum 9 at the end - that’s why he worked a 9m QO. In fact maybe no number gets it done.

[tvp2003]

Maybe it's due to our disappointing season, or perhaps the fact that Florida and Columbus are both on track to miss the playoffs, but I'm a bit surprised at how little I've been following Tkachuk and Gaudreau this year.

Obviously Tkachuk is still top 10 in scoring, whereas Gaudreau's season had tailed off as of late (he most recently had a 5-point game and the OT winner in a 6-5 win versus the Sharks, but otherwise had fallen off his PPG pace from earlier in the year).

Does anyone around here still cheer for either of these guys? Or even care how they and their team are doing?

[Mathgod]

Florida is definitely not on track to miss. Just about everything that could have gone right for them over the past month pretty much has.

Beat the Habs tomorrow and they're 1 pt back with a game in hand.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Florida is definitely not on track to miss. Just about everything that could have gone right for them over the past month pretty much has.

Beat the Habs tomorrow and they're 1 pt back with a game in hand.

They have been trending for a while now and have a chance to make it but even if they do, they won't go far with the dinosaur Marc Staal playing in their top four. He's essentially their Stone who should ideally be a #7.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Florida is definitely not on track to miss. Just about everything that could have gone right for them over the past month pretty much has.

Beat the Habs tomorrow and they're 1 pt back with a game in hand.

Ha — goes to show how closely I’ve been following them…

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Who cares if it’s 9 or 8

That million makes no difference per season long term

It’s having the elite talent that matters

It’s why every other team is locking up their younger players long term

Sure you will occasionally get burned /overpay

But you can not win without the elite talent potential these players have

Unless you want to overpay UFAs which the Flames love to do

It's always easy to say that in hindaight and in the end Two sides have to want to make a deal.

I doubt people would have been happy with $9M x 8 after he put up 61 points in 69 games in 19-20 and 43 points in 56 games in 20-21.

And even then if he really wanted to be here he likely had 8 x $10.5M on the table in the offseason and decided he wanted to leave.

I still think he didnt want to be here long term, and anything he said in the media was lip service. And in the end he proved that, he wanted to be gone ASAP and that's what he did.

[Monahammer]

So we would be unhappy with 1 year of an 8 year contract, then we would be praising treliving in years 2-8. See: Tage Thompson; Sebastian Aho; Austin Matthews; Mitch Marner; Leon Draisaitl.

Everyone wants our GM to make moves to keep the fanbase happy all of a sudden? What the hell is that viewpoint?