Hey CC, during your time in the armed forces, were you ever given an order you refused to carry out?
I always wonder about that in the army. Obviously it wouldn't function well if soldiers could pick and choose the orders they accepted; however, it is possible to receive an order that would be wrong to carry out. An extreme example is obviously all of the Nazi soldiers that were just carrying out there orders that led to the death of millions of jews in WWII.
Hopefully as a Canadian you never had to deal with something quite so horrible, but did you ever have to say "no" to a superior officer? If you were to say no, what sort of punishment could you expect? Are there failsafes in place so that if you are being ordered to do something wrong (like say burn a village full of civilians a la Vietnam) you could refuse on some sort of grounds that would force your superior to rethink his decision?
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And in an effort to keep this on topic, anybody ever been to Germany on November 11? I wonder how they approach Remembrance day.
It was pretty much beaten into us that we could refuse an order that we felt was unlawful. the international and national courts refuse the whole "I was just following orders" defense.
However if you did refuse an order you could still expect to be arrested and have to defend your refusal through the military court system so you'd better have a damned good reason.
did I ever refuse an order, minor stuff, ignoring the prescribed ambush site could have been sited as a refusal of orders from a senior NCO, as it stood I did take some punishment from that NCO that was outside of the court system.
In WWII there wasn't a mechanism in place for the refusal of orders, especially in the German, Japanese or Russian militaries where refusal would earn you an immediate bullet. In the Western Militaries it was likely that you would dangle from a rope after a court marshall.
The war crimes tribunals at the end of the war established the fact that obeying a direct order was not a legal defense, but the quandry was based around the fact that most privates and lower NCO and lower CO's had the concept of blind obedience beaten into your skull when you were indoctrinated into the militaries culture. Because of that it was very rare that you saw junior officers and NCO's punished and executed it was mostly those who issued the orders.
I was never given an order that went contrary to my moral code, if anything the officers in charge were well aware of the boundaries that men would and wouldn't cross.
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I think I'm going to go and watch an episode of Band Of Brothers.
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Below is the scene at Riqueval Bridge, on the St. Quentin canal, north of Bellinglise in France, only a few days before the armistice.
My grandfather, a Captain in the 137th Brigade of the 5th North Staffordshire Regiment, had led a surprise attack to capture this bridge in thick fog in the morning of Sept. 29, 1918.
Earlier on the morning of the scene above, he had cut the leads to explosive charges meant to collapse the bridge and you can see those wires in the photo. He and his men assaulted some machine gun nests and bayoneted and shot the occupants. British forces surged across the bridge and it was a key component in the final advance of the British that forced the collapse of Germany in the following weeks. He was nominated for a Victoria Cross and awarded a Distinguised Service Order by the King at Buckingham Palace, as well as a Military Cross and a Croix de Guerre.
He was a lucky survivor of the war, which means I'm lucky to be here. An early enlistee, a Somme veteran, wounded severely by bullets and gas earlier in the war but returned to duty . . . . .
What I remember most though, is sitting with him as a young boy at his farm east of Red Deer, a peaceful scene, and asking him innocently and earnestly "How many Germans did you kill?" Fifty years after those events, I remember his eyes tearing up and my father leading me away.
So, I will be remembering him this morning.
A more peaceful moment of the same scene . . . .
Cowperson
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On this day I am honouring a man from Devonshire England, a gunner for the English army and a Woman from Nova Scotia a private for the Canadian army. Amongst all the horror and tragedy WWII brought to many, they fell in love and were married in England during these dark day's! My Grandmother and Grandfather may they both rest in peace!
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Cowperson, that photo is in John Keegan's First World War epic book. That book made me cry on so many occasions. It's also one reason why I really dislike the French.
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My Grandpa was involved in WW2 for the American Navy, out in Asia. I didn't know much about it but I thought I'd offer a story that I haven't seen elsewhere in this thread:
Our school had its Remembrance Day assembly yesterday, and it is consistently the assembly that has the best behavior from our students, who range in age from 12 to 14, with a very large immigrant population. The students (yes - teenagers) were very respectful, attentive, all wearing poppies over their hearts. We had a poetry competition sponsored by the Language Arts teachers, and all three poems - one from each grade - were well-written and it was obvious a lot of thought went into them. To answer a direct question, yes, our band performed a handful of songs and Last Post was played (not nearly as perfectly as it is at other assemblies I'm sure) but it was played, nonetheless.
The day we hold Remembrance Day assemblies is actually one of the very few days our school accepts visitors with little questioning. Our students love hearing stories from veterans, and a few have told us that our school's assembly is the only Remembrance Day event they attend.
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But living an honest life - for that you need the truth. That's the other thing I learned that day, that the truth, however shocking or uncomfortable, leads to liberation and dignity. -Ricky Gervais
Today I'm remembering my grandfather, who fought for the Polish army, drove an Allied tank, was captured by Germans and put in a POW camp, survived a horrific machine gun assault and then became an Allied paratrooper in Italy. Needless to say, he couldn`t wait to arrive in Canada after the war. God bless him and the rest of our war heroes.
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I attended the service at the Museum today. It was really well done, as usual, and Jim Prentice gave an awesome tribute.
Huge respect and gratitude to everyone, past and present, who serve/have served in our Military. We never stop thinking of you.
The one on Crowchild across from the barracks? I drove past there at about 11:30 and the place was packed. Nice to see so many people there with kids and everything.
The cynic in me scoped the cars that were parked on the side of Crowchild for parking tickets.
The one on Crowchild across from the barracks? I drove past there at about 11:30 and the place was packed. Nice to see so many people there with kids and everything.
The cynic in me scoped the cars that were parked on the side of Crowchild for parking tickets.
Ya, thats the one. It was busy for sure. Luckily I got there early enough to get a front row seat.
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Originally Posted by HPLovecraft
I am beginning to question the moral character of those who cheer for Vancouver.
My dad's dad fought in both World Wars, and actually fought at the battle for Vimy. I never met the man, but I often wish I could have. I'll raise a scotch for Doc tonight.
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