Raptors 09/10 season thread

[Berger]

There is no way this team should be THIS bad. Wizards shooting 37% after 3 quarters and the game is tied!?!?!?

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't think this team is a bad team at all. They're one of the deepest teams in the league and pretty solid when you look at the lineup from top to bottom. They're really just lazy collectively. I'm sure Evans will have a good effect when he rejoins them, but until than, how much laissez-faire attitude do fans have to endure? Bosh has been playing great, but the other starters have been subpar to put it politely. Give us some reckless drives to the net...take flagrant fouls...anything!

I agree the Raptors are not that bad team like others think. The problem is the shot selections. I don't understand why they keep trying to shoot from the outside a lot especially when most of those shots are forced shots. I am watching the Raptors plays the Wizards right now and they were leading all night but they blew the lead because they keep shooting from the outside. Bargnani, Jack, Wright are throwing crap outside shots instead of going for a hard layup. Bosh is doing great under the basket and he seems to handle Haywood pretty well. I've seen Johnson, Wright going for a hard layup and makes it. Even Calderon have success going for a layout. Crap, Bargnani went for long shot again. He's been forcing his shots. Thank god for CB4 going for a rebound and great effort beating out 2 guys. BTW, our defense sucks.

[octothorp]

Well, the result was what they needed, but strangely I thought they were better on the defensive end than on offense. Definitely went away from driving late in the game, but they ended up getting away with it thanks to Turkoglu.

[SebC]

At least DeRozan is become more assertive... that's a positive.

Another good first quarter tonight. Let's see if they can expand/maintain the lead this time.

[SebC]

LOL @ Jarrett Jack tying his shoe on the court with the ball.

Anyways, switching to the Flames now so the GTD is live, gonna watch the fourth quarter later.

[octothorp]

Yeah, that was hilarious by Jack; even funnier was Chicago's reaction of complete confusion on the court. Like Deng had no idea what to do so he pretended not to see Jack.
Good to see them come out in the third quarter and rather than let Chicago whittle a twenty point lead down to ten, they built it up to nearly thirty. Two more very winnable games up next.

[octothorp]

In other NBA news, Oden with another injury. Potentially done for the year. I was never a big fan of his, but you hate to see a good kid plagued by injuries the way Oden has been.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4717884

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by octothorp

In other NBA news, Oden with another injury. Potentially done for the year. I was never a big fan of his, but you hate to see a good kid plagued by injuries the way Oden has been.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4717884

Geez, for such a young guy with some solid potential, he probably has the worst luck in the league. It's unfortunate it happens to a down to earth guy too. Hopefully he gets better and tears it up next year.

As for the Raps, great win last night. Everyone played hard and although Chicago never really asserted themselves, the defence was everything it needed to be which was a plus. Offense did their thing which was great. Just a smooth game overall. Bargnani did alright too - still wish he stopped settling for the jump shot that often, but the complaining I'll leave for another day.

[octothorp]

Love the raptors throwback jerseys, but hate what I'm seeing on the court. Good thing it's Minnesota, because they'd be losing to anyone else in the league.

[Regorium]

How scary are these lakers?! Close game, then outscores Utah 28-6 in the 4th.

I don't think my Magic could beat them this year. I see it as a rock-paper-scissors type deal between the powers. Magic could beat Boston, Boston could beat the Lakers, Lakers would destroy Magic.

Sadly, that probably means that unless someone in the west upsets them (Denver?), they're going to win it all again this year.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Regorium

How scary are these lakers?! Close game, then outscores Utah 28-6 in the 4th.

I don't think my Magic could beat them this year. I see it as a rock-paper-scissors type deal between the powers. Magic could beat Boston, Boston could beat the Lakers, Lakers would destroy Magic.

Sadly, that probably means that unless someone in the west upsets them (Denver?), they're going to win it all again this year.

Funny to me is that the Jazz had their way with the raps like Kobe in a colorado resort. Too bad that Kobe does the same with the majority of competitive defenses.

Lakers are the favorites. Boston would be in tough with this Lakers' squad. Orlando doesn't even come close depth wise. Then you weigh Vince and Kobe? not even an issue.

Poor CB4, he is the NBA version of Roy Halladay. Not as dominant, but wanting and his play is deserving of contending.

What's up with TDot?

[octothorp]

Awesome defensive effort by the Raptors so far, holding the Rockets to 20 points four minutes into the second quarter. Offense has been good at getting inside as well. Excellent energy. I'm starting to become more of a fan of Jack as a starter, although Banks off the bench just isn't a decent option.

[Flames4LifeFLA]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Lakers are the favorites. Boston would be in tough with this Lakers' squad. Orlando doesn't even come close depth wise. Then you weigh Vince and Kobe? not even an issue.

I think the Magic are just as deep as the Lakers. If not, it's not a runaway like you make it sound. Their second unit, when the first unit is fully healthy, has Gortat, Anderson/Bass/Pietrus/Barnes, Williams and Redick. They went to the Finals last season with their all-star point guard injured for a majority of the season. They beat Boston and Cleveland, both without homecourt-advantage, when nobody thought they could. They've added size, strength and toughness upfront to a group that was the best defensive club last season.

They've been up and down this season, some stretches where they've looked really good and some games where they've looked pretty bad. I've either watched or attended every minute of every game this season. Orlando is a much better team than last year. That is for certain. When they play inside-out, and knock down their shots, they're blowing teams away. Most nights, they are playing this way. A major difference now is that they're not suprising anyone like last season- every team they play is giving them their A-plus effort to use the Magic as a measuring stick.

I think once we start to get into March and April, after sufficient time for them to continue to gel, they will be hitting on all cylinders.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Flames4LifeFLA

I think the Magic are just as deep as the Lakers. If not, it's not a runaway like you make it sound. Their second unit, when the first unit is fully healthy, has Gortat, Anderson/Bass/Pietrus/Barnes, Williams and Redick. They went to the Finals last season with their all-star point guard injured for a majority of the season. They beat Boston and Cleveland, both without homecourt-advantage, when nobody thought they could. They've added size, strength and toughness upfront to a group that was the best defensive club last season.

They've been up and down this season, some stretches where they've looked really good and some games where they've looked pretty bad. I've either watched or attended every minute of every game this season. Orlando is a much better team than last year. That is for certain. When they play inside-out, and knock down their shots, they're blowing teams away. Most nights, they are playing this way. A major difference now is that they're not suprising anyone like last season- every team they play is giving them their A-plus effort to use the Magic as a measuring stick.

I think once we start to get into March and April, after sufficient time for them to continue to gel, they will be hitting on all cylinders.

Lake start Magic

Fish Nelson
Kobe Carter
Artest Lewis
Gasol bass
Bynum Howard

Farmar Williams/Johnson
Brown Reddick
Odom Pietrus
Walton/Powell Anderson/Barnes
Mbenga Gortat/Foyle

The edge clearly goes to the Lakers. The second unit is better than some teams' first. Weigh PJ verse VGundy and it skews moreso towards the lakers.

Sure they added size up front, sure they are drawing the best from the toughest draws, but I just don't see Pietrus or anyone else stopping kobe. Do you? I see the matchup nearly favouring the Lakers at every position, save 1 and 5. Even then, they are close when all things are considered: nelson's injury history, howard's inability to create any offense for himself other than putbacks and a limited post-game.

I don't think VC is going to step it up when they need him to get to the hole when the offense is drying up in the playoffs. Do you think he will play tough VS Kobe? if he makes it that deep into the playoffs...

Bass, VC and Barnes are nice additions but not enough, IMO, to beat the lakers.

Their recent success withstanding, I could see them making it to the western finals vs the celts, but I just don't see them able to topple the lakers' org that has won many championships and know how to win in the League. Orl has never won a championship and their recent acquisitions are not enough to cancel out the exp factor.

If last years finals taught us anything, the lakers would win again in another walk.

Until then, prove it D12 and others.

[octothorp]

I decided to do a breakdown of the Raptors' remaining schedule to see where they should finish. I broke the results so far down into twelve categories: for example, HWT is Home/West/Top, meaning their record, at home, to the top five teams in the west. Then I calculated their winning percentage against this demographic (AV). However, because the sample sizes are so small, I averaged this percentage with the overall H/R record, and the overall record for top/middle/bottom. So the HWT average is averaged with the home average and the top average, to produce an adjusted average (ADJ). Then, I applied this adjusted average to the games remaining (GR) for each of the twelve categories, to form a prediction (PRD).

CAT--REC---AV---GR--ADJ---PRD
HWT 0-1 - 000% - 4 - 29% - 1-3
HWM 1-0 - 100% - 4 - 72% - 3-1
HWB 1-0 - 100% - 4 - 76% - 3-1
RWT 0-4 - 000% - 1 - 16% - 0-1
RWM 1-1 - 050% - 3 - 45% - 1-2
RWB 1-1 - 050% - 3 - 50% - 2-1
HET 2-3 - 040% - 5 - 39% - 2-3
HEM 2-0 - 100% - 4 - 72% - 3-1
HEB 1-1 - 050% - 8 - 60% - 5-3
RET 0-2 - 000% - 8 - 16% - 1-7
REM 0-2 - 000% - 6 - 29% - 2-4
REB 2-0 - 100% - 6 - 67% - 4-2

Totals (for calculations) for Road, Home, Top, Middle, Bottom
TOR 4-10 - 29%
TOH 7-5 - 58%
TOT 2-9 - 18%
TOM 4-3 - 57%
TOB 5-2 - 71%

Predicted record: 27-29
Season so far: 11-15

Predicted final results: 38-44

I actually thought it would be higher. And there aren't a lot of places where they can realistically improve. They could pick up a game here and there against the bottom feeders, but ultimately they'll need to beat the top teams just to finish with a .500 record.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Lake start Magic

Fish Nelson
Kobe Carter
Artest Lewis
Gasol bass
Bynum Howard

Farmar Williams/Johnson
Brown Reddick
Odom Pietrus
Walton/Powell Anderson/Barnes
Mbenga Gortat/Foyle

The edge clearly goes to the Lakers. The second unit is better than some teams' first. Weigh PJ verse VGundy and it skews moreso towards the lakers.

Not sure if you're a huge Lakers homer or what, but it's pretty clear just from your listing that the Magic 2nd unit is far superior to that of the Lakers. Anderson and Barnes have both been huge for the Magic (Anderson averaged close to 15 points and is shooting 40% 3P for example). Gortat is probably the best backup big man, and had offers elsewhere to play as a starter, yet you have him listed next to Mbenga, then a statement saying how the Laker's unit is CLEARLY better. Redick has shot the lights out, and was one of hte few that could slow down Kobe in the finals last year (ie. underrated defensively).

Now, does this mean anything if Howard can't get going due to Bynum and Gasol, and Kobe slices them up for 40 points a game? No, it doesn't. But, on paper, the Magic 2nd unit is better. Lakers lost Gasol and almost couldn't function (something like 7-3? I don't remember). Whereas the Magic have now lost Carter, Lewis, Anderson, Nelson, Barnes, and Pietrus at various points in time, and are still beating top teams.

The whole thing on VC is a load of crap too. When he is in a position to win, he'll play tough. He played tough every time he was in the playoffs. Howard has also been developing several short-range post moves that have been going in quite consistently (65% FG%) and starting to find his defensive form.

While I still think that the Lakers match up extremely well with the Magic as seen in my first post, I think a series between the two could still be extremely close. The Magic in last year's finals could not hit an open shot (or a free throw) to save their life, whereas Kobe hit more than his fair share of circus shots. You have to be good to be lucky, and the Lakers were both.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Farmar and Odom are better off the bench than gortat and reddick. Walton and Brown are more than serviceable. They are not as sexy as Pietrus and Barnes, but they are more than serviceable. It's basically a wash with the slight edge going to the Lakers. Who can create offense off the bench? Reddick? he's a slightly better kapono.

VC is a whiner and your argument is not fact based. He has made the eastern semi's once. That's it. 2nd round once. When he is in a position to win, don't give me that BS. VC has a lot to prove this post-season. He will not be judged upon his regular season merits. His squad is too deep. He is too much of a perimeter player now in his carer and that is what will sink the Magic in the playoffs if Nelson isn't healthy. IMO, it's Nelson's dribble drive and kick abilities that will turn the magic into a serious title threat. Who else gets to the hole for the magic? 'crickets'...They will miss penetration abilities of Turkeyglue. The lakers? kobe, farmar, odom, brown, gasol.

And your last paragraph is why I retain my position. If open looks dry up, where does the offense come from. And what about that old addage, "live by the three, die by the three." VC better revert back to Air Canada if they are gonna threaten the lakers.

Also, I never said they are far superior, I just said I gave them the edge. Also, I said when factoring the Zen of Phil, and the asset management responsibilities of a coach, you see that the edge rests with PJ and his lake. The magic may look better on paper, but it's about going out and coaching and playing. Hey isn't the on paper argument working for the raps?


PS, I am not a lakers' homer, just a bball fan. I'm a raps fan first, but you know...

[OzSome]

Raptors playing Miami Heat right now and they suck in the 2nd quarter. I am not impressed with PG Jack and Dehrozan. Jack is trying to force his shot and really bad on defense. Dehrozan, WTF is this guy doing? I don't think this kid is ready to play the NBA. Raptors' defense really suck tonight. Hopefully it will change in the 2nd half. Wade and Beasley are all over the Raps.

On the positive note, I like the way they played in the 1st half. They are not trying to shoot a lot from the outside and going inside instead. Turk made some good passes a few times.

[SebC]

And another brutal loss... I hate trying to like this team.

[bluejays]

Craptors getting spanked again. Only question with a minute left is, will they get beaten by 30?