Rumor Control: Fidel Castro had died

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im happy you've been here....they LIVED there. I see a differance, even though you may not.




Good for you.....and I mean it.

However, I am basing what i said, on what THEY said....actual refugees that had no fear of reprisal. They are, at least as best as i can tell, now American citizens that flat out hate Castro and believe the country will be better off without him. I believe them...why wouldnt I?. They lived through his regime...I didnt, and niether did you.




This, right here, is where I bow out. YOU dont know this, nor do I as an oppositional view.

Once more from the top for those that seemingly cant follow what I have said..

1) I believe, much like MOST exiles, that Cuba will be better off without a tyrranist.

2) The congress of the USA has made it LAW, that if Cuba comes to the dark side and ascedes that democracy is the way of the future,.......they flat out lose the embargo on thier country. Why wouldnt it be lifted? (Critical thinking folks, even if you dont belive the Govt).


My final words are this...Castro sucks. He and Guevera were (and he still is) murderous thougs that rule a by force, not by peoples choice. Go ahead and defend them...they are the same as all the other dead Dictators world wide....so therefor I dont like them.

I hope this is OK with you socialistic supporters?

And now, just for Zarathustra...Im going to the opera, wont be back for a while...that OK with you?

I agree with some of what you say, Castro was and probably still continues to be a classless murderer.

Yet, that being said you have to look at the lives being lead my the cuban citizens(despite he fact they cant leave). No one has yet to respond to the point I made comparing the lives of the Dominican/Mexican lower classes to the Cubans, valid point is it not?

On the subject of your cuban friends(or associates). I am no contricdicting what they say, and dont want to sound like I am. You are right, we havent lived through it, and they have alot more perspective on the situation then any of us ever could. But I would say many Americans(right or wrong) would have the same kind of hatful things to say about Bush, not saying they are right, but it all depends on how you view things, I am very sure, and know for a fact not all Cubans think of Fidel the same way, I think you would agree with me.

[Vulcan]

The way I look at it, this isn't about a dictatorship versus democracy, this is communism versus capitalism. The USA generally doesn't give a rats arse about democracy in other nations, it's only an excuse to take over a country's assets.

The USA owned most of Cuba before Castro and whenever I've seen 'free Cuba' groups, they've been rubbing their hands in anticipation of regaining they're wealth and power. Their greed was embarassing. The last thing they want is a peacefull move to democracy that would keep the status quo. These people want their property and power back and fukc the Cuban people.

[WessThompson]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

For what reason? Cuban government policy or Canadian military policy?

Canadian military policy

There are a few other countries we are not allowed to visit as well...although I don't know them all. Cuba is the only one I looked into as I wanted to go a couple of years ago.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The way I look at it, this isn't about a dictatorship versus democracy, this is communism versus capitalism. The USA generally doesn't give a rats arse about democracy in other nations, it's only an excuse to take over a country's assets.

The USA owned most of Cuba before Castro and whenever I've seen 'free Cuba' groups, they've been rubbing their hands in anticipation of regaining they're wealth and power. Their greed was embarassing. The last thing they want is a peacefull move to democracy that would keep the status quo. These people want their property and power back and fukc the Cuban people.

I'm sure there are greedy *******s of other nationalities who would love to exploit Cuba as well....or maybe they currently are. I'm sure that these types of groups exist in many other countries. I'm pretty sure that being an American is not a prerequisite for being a greedy, exploitive son of a bitch. It's an equal opportunity growth industry.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I think this is a flawed argument. Cuban-Americans would, I think, be more in favor of improving the lives of their relatives/countrymen than continuing to punish Castro.

If it weren't for things like the Helms-Burton Act or before that the "Cuban Democracy Act" (conngressman Robert Torricelli who introcuded it said the bill is designed to "wreak havok on the island")I might have agreed. But things like this, which only tend to squeeze and economic noose tighter, lead me to believe the embargo is punative.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I'm sure there are greedy *******s of other nationalities who would love to exploit Cuba as well....or maybe they currently are. I'm sure that these types of groups exist in many other countries. I'm pretty sure that being an American is not a prerequisite for being a greedy, exploitive son of a bitch. It's an equal opportunity growth industry.

Very true, but geographically speaking, it will be much easier for the US to exert influence. They have the inside track, being a quick flight away. But you are correct, the US does not have a monopoly on greed.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Which facts might those be bud?

All i recall reading was inncorrect oppinions.

Hilarious. I guess every opinion is incorrect compared to yours, eh?

Thanks for the laugh!

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Hilarious. I guess every opinion is incorrect compared to yours, eh?

Thanks for the laugh!

Still waiting on the "facts"

Little smileys and snid remarks dont prove a point

[transplant99]

A timely column on the Cuba/US angle from a Miami newspaper.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...sfla-news-cuba

"Raul already has begun to systematically consolidate his power over the military while asserting influence over the economy and taking a central role in the Communist Party," Latell said. "Raul always has been the main organizer in the regime."

While predicting a relatively smooth succession, Latell said some signs point to "the possibility for significant popular disturbances" after Castro's death. These include the Cuban government's candid acknowledgment that as many as 2.5 million younger Cubans have suffered economic deprivations to the point where they may not believe in the Castro brothers' revolution.

"But I'm not willing to say Cubans will rush to the streets when Fidel dies," Latell added.

Oh and i just saw this...

Originally Posted by Kipperfan

3) Fidel does NOT rule with an iron fist, hearing you say that is humorous, and shows that either you dont care about the truth, or are buying into the propaganda the western(american) media has been selling for 40+ years.

Are you serious?

OK...simple question.

How do you make that statement when there is a specific police force that goes around the country and arrests, harrasses, threatens, and even murders those who disagree with Castro's policies or practice different "thoughts" than those "state approved'?

Oh and as for your "health care" argument? A bit of a stretch to give Castro/Communism credit for that is it not?

Before the 1959 revolution, (according to a few different sources) Cuba had the highest level of medical care in Latin America, including the 13th lowest infant mortality rate in the WORLD, and the 3rd highest number of physicians and dentists per capita.

[transplant99]

Oh, and if you want to tell castro how you feel about him, one way or another,.....

f_castro@cuba.gov.cu

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

If it weren't for things like the Helms-Burton Act or before that the "Cuban Democracy Act" (conngressman Robert Torricelli who introcuded it said the bill is designed to "wreak havok on the island")I might have agreed. But things like this, which only tend to squeeze and economic noose tighter, lead me to believe the embargo is punative.

That's not your argument though. You're suggesting the policy is aimed to please the Cuban-American voters in Florida because it is such an important state in Presidential elections.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Still waiting on the "facts"

Little smileys and snid remarks dont prove a point

What does an opinion have anything to do with fact?

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Azure

How can you hold a communist government responsible for their actions?

BTW, nice move there with putting White Doors on the ignore list; perfect example dodging the question and refusing to face the facts.

Remember this little assertion you made??

Oppinion has NOTHING to do with facts, but unless you can enlighten me on the facts the I refuse to face, as referenced above, your just posturing, and have been thi entire conversation.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Remember this little assertion you made??

Oppinion has NOTHING to do with facts, but unless you can enlighten me on the facts the I refuse to face, as referenced above, your just posturing, and have been thi entire conversation.

He made many assertions, and even reported some fact. You took it as a wrong "opinion" and put him on the ignore list.

You did say that every opinion is wrong unless it agrees with yours, right?

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by Azure

He made many assertions, and even reported some fact. You took it as a wrong "opinion" and put him on the ignore list.

You did say that every opinion is wrong unless it agrees with yours, right?

Stop posturing for FRIGGEN once and get those "facts" for me. If you want to make a point BACK IT UP, dont expect someone else to do it for you.

" ahhhh yeah i think Chris Simon has the most skill of any Flame ever........what....proof... facts? just go look at all his game tape its amazing.........which game? ohhh all the games just go look at it an you will se i am right"

I liken this to what your saying pefectly.

[Hakan]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

When I was in Cuba (Fall, 2002) I had a good talk with an old-timer down there (I actually bought some of his art).

He told me that all the kids were scared of Hemmingway because he was mean. That life has been hard, but he is worried about what will happen when the embargo ends. He is fearful the US will overwhelm the rich culture they have, and they will end up being bought up cheap and used for their resources. He knows it is coming, and knows it is necessary for his people's future growth, but worries his people won't be able to handle it if it happens too fast.

Castro is no jewel, but if the US can normalize relations with China, then Communism/Human rights can't be the reason they are still persecuting Cuba. I think the embargo is relic of a by-gone era, and it is being maintained to get the Florida vote. And until Castro dies, or Florida is no longer a swing state, the embargo will stay.

I saw a really good documentary called "Big Sugar" on CBC. One of the ideas that it floated was the huge amount of power the big American sugar companies had in dictating relations with Cuba. The sugar racket is crucial in maintaining the embargo.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Hakan

I saw a really good documentary called "Big Sugar" on CBC. One of the ideas that it floated was the huge amount of power the big American sugar companies had in dictating relations with Cuba. The sugar racket is crucial in maintaining the embargo.

An editorial from the Washington Post last years called Big Sugar

The government restricts imports through a series of quotas, pushing U.S. sugar prices to between two and three times the global market rate. As a result, a handful of sugar producers, notably in Florida, a battleground electoral state, pocket $1 billion a year in excess profits.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

That's not your argument though. You're suggesting the policy is aimed to please the Cuban-American voters in Florida because it is such an important state in Presidential elections.

My point is that the Cuban-Americans are so anti-Castro that their votes would be lost if there was an easing of the official stance towards Cuba. Although I would be interested in hearing from a Cuban American how they feel (as opposed to how the pollsters apparently say they feel).

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

My point is that the Cuban-Americans are so anti-Castro that their votes would be lost if there was an easing of the official stance towards Cuba. Although I would be interested in hearing from a Cuban American how they feel (as opposed to how the pollsters apparently say they feel).

OK, that's what I thought you were saying. I think its flawed because I think those same voters would welcome what helps their families/countrymen more than what continues to 'punish' Castro. I don't know this of course, just a feeling. I guess we'll have to wait for that Cuban-American view you requested.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Stop posturing for FRIGGEN once and get those "facts" for me. If you want to make a point BACK IT UP, dont expect someone else to do it for you.

" ahhhh yeah i think Chris Simon has the most skill of any Flame ever........what....proof... facts? just go look at all his game tape its amazing.........which game? ohhh all the games just go look at it an you will se i am right"

I liken this to what your saying pefectly.

Now you're turning an opinion into a fact based arguement. "I think", not "I know."

Big difference.