Racism at Calgary Bars?

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Igottago

So what about when I go, dressed up, no baggy pants or sneakers, and still have the same issues. Consistently. And you forgot to watch the part of the news where they did let in the white people who were under 25. The rules weren't consistent to everyone who was trying to access the club.

But its okay, if you want to bury your head in the sand, go right ahead.

They let in some 18 year old girls and a guy that was 24 and with his girlfriend. Happens all the time. Put those same two guys in that same situation with two hot blondes and they make it into 6 out of the 6 bars.

The rules aren't consistent because I've stood watched people head into those clubs ahead of me with sneakers on only to be told "no sneakers" when I made it to the front. It's BS, I agree, but in my opinion it's not as race related as the news makes it out to be.

[Scorponok]

Being an Asian myself, it is quite despicable that in today's day and age, and especially in a city with different races and cultures, that this could happen.

But I really hope that people don't label the city as racist, when I know that for the most part, people here are very open and tolerant of the many different cultures from around the world that reside here.

The properly placed blame, should fall on the @$$hole who owns or manages the clubs who is telling the bouncers or whoever to only allow whites into their clubs.

Where is the action? Where is the solution? I see a lot of complaining going on, and not a whole lot of plans on how to deal with it. Why don't some people get together and create a petition to the owner(s) of said clubs? Why not have a petition signing right outside the club in question? Do something to shame the owner into acknowledging the problem. Get T.V. and newspapers involved because we know they love a story like this. Either that, or take your business elsewhere, to a place more deserving of your money.

That being said, I see no reason why a club owner should not be allowed to pick and choose who he wants in his clubs. It's private property. But saying that, I don't see a reason why people should not be allowed to make a public spectacle of his or her bigotry and reveal to the public just what is happening and maybe shame them into changing their policies.

[jolinar of malkshor]

The bars are there to make money plane and simple. They really dont want people in there that are going to order water and take up a lot of room. This applies to everyone. That is why they try and narrow it to older people because older people tend to have careers and more money.

Now I dont want to here "well I am 18 and I make over 100,000 a year". Yes, yes we all know some young people are pretty wealthy but the facts are the older you are the more money you have.

My wife works part time at a pub and it is a big pain in the buttocks when they bring in live entertainment and they get a whole bunch of cheap ass college students who come in and order water and watch the show for free or order a few drinks and dont leave a tip because their butt squeaks when they walk, so I can also understand these owners wanting to keep out the cheapos.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Igottago

the news story isn't proof? How about the fact that it was a follow up to the same story a year ago? how about you come out for a few weeks with me and some of my friends..My personal experience is proof enough for me..this has been going on for years..all the news did was show whats going on to those who were unaware. I really don't understand why people want to sugar coat this issue.

No, the news story isn't proof. Not on its own.

Let's just make sure we don't get off on the wrong foot. I do believe that discrimination takes place in all sorts of businesses. You and I are on the same side here.

What I am saying is if you want something done, speak more about your own experiences and not the news crew. Odds are the guys were in the line for more time than what the camera was on them for. Did they do or say something to make the bouncers not let them in? We have no way of knowing, because we saw an editted version of the story.

[RedMan12]

screw bars especially if they are racist. I would rather go to a house party with my ethnically diverse friends and get hammered and have a good time without the trendy goofs at the club.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by ken0042

No, the news story isn't proof. Not on its own.

Let's just make sure we don't get off on the wrong foot. I do believe that discrimination takes place in all sorts of businesses. You and I are on the same side here.

What I am saying is if you want something done, speak more about your own experiences and not the news crew. Odds are the guys were in the line for more time than what the camera was on them for. Did they do or say something to make the bouncers not let them in? We have no way of knowing, because we saw an editted version of the story.

Okay, well I am telling you from my own experiences, that the stuff I saw on the edited news story, has happened to me and my friends on numerous occassions. And the only thing I did to make the bouncers not let me in was be a minority. Therefore I see the news story as extremely accurate.

So if you're trying to say that the news story was an exaggeration of some sort, I disagree. From my experiences, it was pretty much spot on.

[Igottago]

I would also like to add, that the type of establishment these places are isn't the issue. I know the entire concept behind these nightclubs is somewhat shallow and exclusive anyways.

The issue is, that for those who do like to go, many are being made to feel like second class citizens, in their own city. We're not talking about illegal immigrants or something. We're talking about everyday born and raised Calgarians, who contribute to this city through volunteer work, people who are award winning students, people who have good social skills, speak fluent english, have a diverse base of friends from different ethnicities. These are people who are integrated into this city. So why is it, if they go out to have some fun on a weekend like so many Calgarians do, they are treated like a gang member? Gangs are a real problem, but not all minorities are in gangs. In fact, the majority of minorities are not in gangs. To me, this nightclub problem is simply a symptom of a bigger problem in Calgary's overall mindset.

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Funny thing is, this latest report was a follow up to a similar report about a year ago..and absolutely nothing has changed. And yet some people are still trying to deny that its racial profiling...
I've never caused, or been in a fight at a bar, and this has happened to me on countless occassions...to the point where I'm pretty much used to it now. And I've been to bars in Vancouver, London, Las Vegas...huge cities. I've never seen anything like this there. Calgary still has some growing up to do.

I don't disagree at all but it is a two way street. It is not a white vs. the rest scene which the media displays it as. I look back at high school where many muslims, regardless of where they were from, said they were lebs and pranced around the city like they owned it. These were violent mofo's and everybody feared them. Talk to owners of bars and they will tell you the same thing....it is usually groups of middle eastern areas that are starting the problems, not the whites or the blacks or the asians etc. It is a pathetic statement to make but go talk to different bar owners off the record. I know the head bouncer at Cowboys and he says the exact same thing.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by guzzy

I don't disagree at all but it is a two way street. It is not a white vs. the rest scene which the media displays it as. I look back at high school where many muslims, regardless of where they were from, said they were lebs and pranced around the city like they owned it. These were violent mofo's and everybody feared them. Talk to owners of bars and they will tell you the same thing....it is usually groups of middle eastern areas that are starting the problems, not the whites or the blacks or the asians etc. It is a pathetic statement to make but go talk to different bar owners off the record. I know the head bouncer at Cowboys and he says the exact same thing.

The problem is it's not PC to say this and as soon as people do they get jumped on.

[RedMan12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The problem is it's not PC to say this and as soon as people do they get jumped on.

its sucks. A small group always messes things up for everybody, but its no excuse to racial profile everyone.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by RedMan12

its sucks. A small group always messes things up for everybody, but its no excuse to racial profile everyone.

I agree. It's not the fighting so much that I have a problem with, it's the guys that bring a knife and six of their friends to a one-on-one fist fight. Maybe the answer is to start putting metal detectors in the clubs.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by guzzy

I don't disagree at all but it is a two way street. It is not a white vs. the rest scene which the media displays it as. I look back at high school where many muslims, regardless of where they were from, said they were lebs and pranced around the city like they owned it. These were violent mofo's and everybody feared them. Talk to owners of bars and they will tell you the same thing....it is usually groups of middle eastern areas that are starting the problems, not the whites or the blacks or the asians etc. It is a pathetic statement to make but go talk to different bar owners off the record. I know the head bouncer at Cowboys and he says the exact same thing.

You know, I agree. Many minority communties do have problems with gangs and violence. I won't argue with that. They have to do something from their end to alleviate this problem. And I also think that a lot of minorities need to make more of an effort to be involved in mainstream society, rather than just keep to their little communities and not have to integrate at all. It is a 2 way street.

But I just don't get how having a racist policy at a bar, and treating normal Calgarians like second rate citizens, is helping things. It probably makes things worse.

[RedMan12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I agree. It's not the fighting so much that I have a problem with, it's the guys that bring a knife and six of their friends to a one-on-one fist fight. Maybe the answer is to start putting metal detectors in the clubs.

Sounds like a good idea. Thats what they are doing in the States and it seems to help. I haven't noticed this problem in Vancouver as much. I guess because Vancouver is soo diverse the clubs downtown would go out of business if they started profiling. I haven't gone to clubs for awhile and I am not much into the scene so I wouldn't know for sure.

[ken0042]

One thing I saw years ago in Winnipeg was a system where they took your picture, as well as taking a picture of your ID. That way if you started anything they had a way of tracking you down.

This was in the mid-90's, so with current privacy laws and Identity Theft concerns it may not fly.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by ken0042

One thing I saw years ago in Winnipeg was a system where they took your picture, as well as taking a picture of your ID. That way if you started anything they had a way of tracking you down.

This was in the mid-90's, so with current privacy laws and Identity Theft concerns it may not fly.

I think Vickers tried that (2 years ago?), and, as you guessed, there were too many privacy issues.

[Scorponok]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I think Vickers tried that (2 years ago?), and, as you guessed, there were too many privacy issues.

You've got to be kidding! Privacy issues? In a bar? You can't get any more public than that.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Well I haven't been to bars with a lot of minorities so I can't speak to that issue.

What I have done is been to bars with white friends and had problems getting in. Usually it's dress code related, or age related. But sometimes you just get bizarre situations.

For example: This one time we go to Cowboys, everyone gets allowed in except for a cute girl of age who looked like she was over 18. Why? She didn't have two pieces of picture ID. So we had to take a cab back and get it. None of the rest of us had two pieces of ID either...

My tips for getting bar entrance:
1. Don't go in large groups, if you do, divide your group up into smaller groups
2. Bring girls, bouncers are more likely to deny entrace to a group of guys of any race than a mixed gender group.
3. Don't wear sneakers

As for the racial profiling, I have no doubt it's a problem. A lot of the bars here in Calgary are ######ed, their bouncers as well. I haven't had any problems getting into Vancouver clubs.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

I think Vickers tried that (2 years ago?), and, as you guessed, there were too many privacy issues.

All they have to do is have the person seeking entry into the bar sign a waver as far as privacy is concerned. You dont sign the waver you dont get into the bar. Is that how you spell waver?

[rubecube]

Anybody else think Vickers is one of the biggest *******s alive?

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Scorponok

You've got to be kidding! Privacy issues? In a bar? You can't get any more public than that.

Well, privacy laws (Alberta has one of the strictest) say that you cannot collect and maintain data outside of your business. This is supposed to prevent companies from selling their customer lists to telemarketers. In this case I seem to recall that since 99+% of customers aren't ever going to be a problem it was illegal to store personal information (drivers license #, DOB, etc.) If the data was ever stolen or abused, people could sue Penny Lane for big $.

Also, IANAL but don't think the bar can have you sign a waiver to let them do anything they want. Even if you have signed it, if you can prove negligence (for one thing) on their part, you can still sue. It does prevent you from trying to sue by saying, "I wasn't aware that (fill in blank)", but you can still sue for other causes.


Edit: I found a link from Nov. ID scans at clubs invade privacy