Who was the best Goalie of all time?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by stone156

and don't forget his role in the '72 Canada Russia series. We don't win that without him. Dryden was not Dryden in those games.

And the fact Team Canada played a faster Russian squad who also played a different style of game. That in itself forced Dryden and Espositio to change how they faced the Russian shooters. Dryden couldn't adapt until game 8.

[CroFlames]

The argument is silly. Take prime Ovi and put him in the 70s and he probably scores 200 goals in a season.

Take prime Hasek play him in the 70s and be probably gets 50 shutouts.

Take prime Rocket Richard and play him in 2022 and he might get 5 goals in 82 games.

Todays athlete is light years ahead of athletes 50 years ago.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Where would Lundqvist finish in a top ten list? Would he be in a top ten list? I always felt like he was the next batch, him and Luongo from Broduer and Roy.

Oh boy. That's a good question. Depends if you count Plante and Sawchuk and the old guard like that as well.

If you want to keep this "Modern" which I consider post '67 expansion. Then I'd find it difficult to believe Lundqvist falls below 10th overall. Including the older guys I think Lundqvist falls to perhaps 15th overall.

1. Roy
2. Hasek
3. Brodeur
4. Dryden
5. Esposito
6. Ed Belfour
7. Luongo
8. Lundqvist
9. Joseph
10. Kiprusoff (If I wasn't such a homer, Fuhr would probably be here)

Shouts out Fleury, Osgood and Miller. Khabibulin I hope you sprain your ankle it it never feels right again.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The argument is silly. Take prime Ovi and put him in the 70s and he probably scores 200 goals in a season.

Take prime Hasek play him in the 70s and be probably gets 50 shutouts.

Take prime Rocket Richard and play him in 2022 and he might get 5 goals in 82 games.

Todays athlete is light years ahead of athletes 50 years ago.

Your argument is silly as we don't know how a player from one era would perform in another era. Can you say for a certainty that Hasek would be as good with the smaller goalie equipment or that his style of play would be as successful? Goalies of each era played differently based on the equipment they had at the time.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Dion

Your argument is silly as we don't know how a player from one era would perform in another era. Can you say for a certainty that Hasek would be as good with the smaller goalie equipment or that his style of play would be as successful? Goalies of each era played differently based on the equipment they had at the time.

Hasek's style didn't depend upon the size of his pads. A butterfly style goalie is more dependent on their pads, but Hasek didn't play a blocking style dependent on big pads, and I'm not sure his style was determined by the equipment of his era as much as it defied the equipment of his era.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Hasek's style didn't depend upon the size of his pads. A butterfly style goalie is more dependent on their pads, but Hasek didn't play a blocking style dependent on big pads, and I'm not sure his style was determined by the equipment of his era as much as it defied the equipment of his era.

To say Hasek would get 50 shutouts is just ridiculous

[bluejays]

I love this debate and topic. To me, for the longest time I thought Hasek was all luck but it was simply an unorthodox style where he never gave up on a puck. He's my number one considering he wasn't huge, and his pads were appropriate. Nobody replicated his style after which is also very interesting.

Second is Brodeur. The guy revolutionized the butterfly by standing up but also being solid fundamentally. He didn't always have the best team in front of him but he always made big saves. His pads were almost undersized throughout his career which is something to consider as he could have easily cheated but didn't.

I guess Roy gets the third, and it's hard to argue against his cabinet and confidence, but I look at his teams and they were amazing, and I look at his pads and they were massive. He brought in the butterfly which continues to today, so it's hard not to give him a rightful place, but I do think there should be some points deducted.


As for anyone pre-90s, no chance in hell. The goaltending style back then was awful. I really wish Carey Price got the credit he deserved. When all is said and done I think Vasilevsky can be great.

[Barnet Flame]

I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned Bernie Parent.

That guy often pulled off save percentage figures that would be the envy of today’s NHL, never mind his era and with the crappy goalie equipment back then.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Dion

To say Hasek would get 50 shutouts is just ridiculous

Oh, yeah, I totally agree with that. I'm just saying Hasek wasn't one of those goalies whose play was a product of the equipment of the time. In a time of goalies with huge pads, Hasek played a game that defied the trend in the league. I think if you put him in any era of the game he would be just as special.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Dion

Your argument is silly as we don't know how a player from one era would perform in another era. Can you say for a certainty that Hasek would be as good with the smaller goalie equipment or that his style of play would be as successful? Goalies of each era played differently based on the equipment they had at the time.

You're an old guy. Surely you have watched Hasek played. If there was ever a goalie who was not reliant on oversized equipment to make a save, it was him.

But there is much more to the quality-change in players over eras than just equipment. Perhaps the biggest one is development. For a couple decades now becoming a NHL player has meant hockey schools and skills camps, and year-round training that kids start before they become teenagers. This concentration on childhood and adolescent development has made a HUGE impact on how fast and structured today's game has become. So, even just plunking a 1970s phenom into modern equipment won't change the years of focused training and development that goes into making a modern NHL player.

In fact, this is perhaps another reason why Hasek's impact on the modern game was so impressive. He started playing when he was six-years old in Soviet controlled Czechoslovakia. He didn't even have real skates—just those strap-on blades kids used to tie to their shoes. For all the competitive disadvantages Hasek had growing up, he managed to dominate the NHL.

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[Redlan]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

My vote is and always has been Patrick Roy. He popularized Butterfly, revolutionizing the position and he has the most cups. Kind of where it starts and ends for me.

For me this “dummy-downed” the position and ushered in the puck stopper goaltender. I liked the positional, athletic or reflex goalies and is a big strike against Roy, it is one of the reasons I like Kiprusoff who I considered a hybrid goalie. My vote goes with Brodeur with Hasek second.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned Bernie Parent.

That guy often pulled off save percentage figures that would be the envy of today’s NHL, never mind his era and with the crappy goalie equipment back then.

But like people keep mentioning, yes smaller equipment on the goalie, but also waaaay crappier players and shots coming at him.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Dion

Your argument is silly as we don't know how a player from one era would perform in another era. Can you say for a certainty that Hasek would be as good with the smaller goalie equipment or that his style of play would be as successful? Goalies of each era played differently based on the equipment they had at the time.

Man go watch a Stanley Cup Final from the 70s or early 80s.

Half the team lollygags on the ice it’s like watching beer league. It comes down to the athlete himself and those athletes are no where near todays athlete.

The goalies of old are simply not in the same conversation as Roy Hasek or Brodeur.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But like people keep mentioning, yes smaller equipment on the goalie, but also waaaay crappier players and shots coming at him.

You just have to look at relative save percentages between the eras to know that argument does not hold water.

The size of goalies and their equipment take up so much space now that the goalie position has changed completely.

If goalies tried the butterfly with the equipment they had back then, teams would be running up basketball scores.

[Nadal Fan]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The argument is silly. Take prime Ovi and put him in the 70s and he probably scores 200 goals in a season.

Take prime Hasek play him in the 70s and be probably gets 50 shutouts.

Take prime Rocket Richard and play him in 2022 and he might get 5 goals in 82 games.

Todays athlete is light years ahead of athletes 50 years ago.

Hmmm a 51 year old Gordie Howe put up 41 points in the NHL. If he was in his prime we would be the best player in the league today.

[Huntingwhale]

Patrick Roy was easily my favorite player a kid. But IMO the choice is clearly Hasek. As already mentioned, Roy definitely had the better overall career in terms of accomplishments, championships and legacy. But going by pure skill of who was better at stopping the puck, there will never be a another goalie like Hasek.

Elite generational forwards and defensemen come and go. But you almost never see a goalie like Hasek you can truly label as generational.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

Hmmm a 51 year old Gordie Howe put up 41 points in the NHL. If he was in his prime we would be the best player in the league today.

He put up 41 points in an era where points were not hard to come by. There is no way he would be the best player in the NHL today in his prime and he wouldn't even make an NHL team today at 51. It was a different time. If you could somehow manage to transport a prime Howe into next season I would venture that he would get multiple suspensions from his antics and elbows and end up on someone's 3rd line. The game has just changed too much.

[Jay Random]

I make a distinction between the best of all time and the greatest of all time. ‘Best’ is about skill playing the position. ‘Greatest’ is about influence on the game.

With that in mind, I believe Hasek was the best. But Roy changed the way the game is played.

When I was young, back in the Upper Cretaceous, whenever little kids played pickup hockey, it was always the least athletic or most unpopular kid who got stuck playing goal. After Roy, playing goal became cool. Kids with top-notch athletic talent actually wanted to grow up to be goalies. The massive improvement in equipment and training came after, and as a direct result of that.

Patrick Roy changed goaltending as much as Bobby Orr changed the role of the defenceman. He himself is one of the biggest reasons why you can't compare modern goalies with those who came before his time. That, to me, makes him the greatest goalie in the history of the game.

[powderjunkie]

All time is simply impossible to answer. It's a bit more reasonable to identify guys who had a 5+ yr stretch as the 'best in the world':

88-94 = Roy
94-02 = Hasek
02-08 = Brodeur (Kipper certainly in the mix, too)
08-14 = Lundqvist/Luongo
14-18 = Price
18-pres = Vasilevskiy

2005-15 is probably Kipper to Lundqvist with Luongo generally in the mix, probably similar to the mid 90s when Roy/Hasek/Brodeur were all at the height of their powers.

Old timers can probably better fill in going further back, but seems like:

80-88 = Smith/Fuhr/Hextall/Barrasso...my instinct would say that these guys are generally a tier below the post-Brodeur guys, but that's probably not fair. It was simply not a goalie league in the 80s, though nobody seems to have really risen to the top.

70s = Dryden/Esposito/Tretiak
50s & 60s = Plante/Sawchuk (Hall/Bower in the mix, too)

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

You just have to look at relative save percentages between the eras to know that argument does not hold water.

The size of goalies and their equipment take up so much space now that the goalie position has changed completely.

If goalies tried the butterfly with the equipment they had back then, teams would be running up basketball scores.

Tony Esposito played the butterfly style.