[CP Story] Makings Sense of the Lucic Trade

[zamler]

Playing a heavy game is a team thing not 1 or 2 players. The Blues beat the Bruins by playing a physical game but not the blast a guy with a massive hit strategy, watch the goals St. Louis scored in game 7 it was about separating the opponent from the puck and making a play to the net.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Nope ... not just.

55 weeks ago.

Yeah.

I mean some of the anger comes from the fact that this cements just how awful the Neal signing turned out. This is like taking a big loss on a stock and selling to avoid any further bleeding. Which tells you how bad the Flames wanted him GONE.

If some of the posters really really hating the trade were consistently saying Neal was misused and unlucky then I guess I’d understand a little. Not that I’d agree.

We bought real high on Neal and sold real low.

Like I said in the Treliving thread, I don’t advocate just throwing your hands up and saying it happens. There were reasons to sign him which have been enumerated and there significant risks. Since it’s the same management group that signed him last year, I can only hope they’re learning something.

[thefoss1957]

@Ricosuave asked for outsider opinion on the Neal/Lucic trade.

Bad contract for bad contract deal, to gain a little cap space?

I feel that the Neal/Peters personal dynamic must have been the driving factor, as it must have been worse than assumed. Why else trade within the division? Why take the Oil's mistake?

The trade leaves more questions than answers, buying out gains nothing, the market for Lucic is soft on spinning him off near the trade deadline, and there was no clear need to muscle up the lineup.

The Flames now have an irritant in Matt T. and some muscle in Lucic, but, at the cost of putting a slower skater out in your forward set. Lucic, I expect, will only be used at ES and as a PP screener, lacking the versatility that Neal has demonstrated.

But, if Neal didn't want to be in Calgary, or had a fundamental antagonism with Peters, then a bad contract for bad contract "change of scenery" move may have been the only option.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah.

I mean some of the anger comes from the fact that this cements just how awful the Neal signing turned out. This is like taking a big loss on a stock and selling to avoid any further bleeding. Which tells you how bad the Flames wanted him GONE.

If some of the posters really really hating the trade were consistently saying Neal was misused and unlucky then I guess I’d understand a little. Not that I’d agree.

We bought real high on Neal and sold real low.

Like I said in the Treliving thread, I don’t advocate just throwing your hands up and saying it happens. There were reasons to sign him which have been enumerated and there significant risks. Since it’s the same management group that signed him last year, I can only hope they’re learning something.

I'm a futures trader.

One of the things that really helped us in building sustainable profits/growth was to stop treating losses differently than wins. If you make a call and you're wrong the worst thing you can do is sit on it hoping it turns around. Have a stop loss point and get out.

The Flames clearly had that on Neal. It could be because they think it's only going to get worse. It's only going to get worse with his opportunity in Calgary, or they completely misread his personality and effect on the locker room.

But get out if you deem it bad.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by thefoss1957

The Flames now have an irritant in Matt T. and some muscle in Lucic, but, at the cost of putting a slower skater out in your forward set. Lucic, I expect, will only be used at ES and as a PP screener, lacking the versatility that Neal has demonstrated.

I love the idea of Tkachuk stirring something up, Bennett pouring gasoline on it, and then Lucic being around to clean up the mess should it be needed.

[Itse]

(Not completely serious) positive angle:

Since trades are Trelivings strength and UFA signings are his weakness, it's only logical that he can turn a bad UFA signing into a good player through a trade, right?

(Also, summer is long.)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm a futures trader.

One of the things that really helped us in building sustainable profits/growth was to stop treating losses differently than wins. If you make a call and you're wrong the worst thing you can do is sit on it hoping it turns around. Have a stop loss point and get out.

The Flames clearly had that on Neal. It could be because they think it's only going to get worse. It's only going to get worse with his opportunity in Calgary, or they completely misread his personality and effect on the locker room.

But get out if you deem it bad.

Although I guess in this case, you lost basically everything by the time you got out of it. Unfortunately not a very liquid market for recently signed big money 30+ year old forwards who look like they’d prefer to be doing something else.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Although I guess in this case, you lost basically everything by the time you got out of it. Unfortunately not a very liquid market for recently signed big money 30+ year old forwards who look like they’d prefer to be doing something else.

If they know the outcome next year is similar they're moving on before they can take more losses.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If they know the outcome next year is similar they're moving on before they can take more losses.

Yeah just saying the stop loss point needed to come sooner than when your best option is trading for Lucic. But like I said, the market for Neal during the season would have been illiquid, if not non existent.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

They're a laughing stock because professional media, beat writers, and fans alike see the "unmoveable contract" moved and want to sensationalize things. You don't have to look very hard to see words like "perplexing," "head scratching," and "baffling" being thrown around, with jokes being made at the Flames' expense.

They were a laughing stock after Sutter's panic moves, they were a laughing stock for most of Feaster's tenure (especially after the ROR offer sheet), and they were a laughing stock under Brian "truculence" Burke. The Flames are no stranger to being the NHL's punchline and actually Treliving's first few years turned out to be a break from the norm. The only way people outside of Calgary give two hoots about the Calgary Flames are when they can use them to poke fun, and we're now back to that.

Kind of strage you would question me on this like it's my own personal opinion when there's plenty of evidence out there after just a few days that it's true.

The Flames were far from a laughing stock under Burke. He was crucial in turning the image of this team around.

This team won 50 games and finished second overall in the league 5 years into a rebuild. Swapping bottom 6 wingers doesn’t change things that much. It is easy to see how this move benefits the club. Who cares about the basement bloggers and lemming fanboys on the internet?

We will see which Alberta team is better next year

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I love the idea of Tkachuk stirring something up, Bennett pouring gasoline on it, and then Lucic being around to clean up the mess should it be needed.

A Lucic-Bennett-Tkachuk can only go one of two ways. Brilliant or a total disaster.

Might be a good playoff line when the whistles get put away though.

[Toonage]

I don't think he meant on the same line

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I don't think he meant on the same line

Yeah but I sure did!

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Yeah but I sure did!

Ew.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

A Lucic-Bennett-Tkachuk can only go one of two ways. Brilliant or a total disaster.

Might be a good playoff line when the whistles get put away though.

Or with 1 minute left in the game and Evander Kane is chirping.

[Bourque's Twin]

Watching Neal last year is what convinces me that this is a good trade for Calgary. He just looked so bad and so different from what I remember about him. He used to play with an edge, possess a hard shot, and skate pretty well. He showed none of those characteristics.

Here's a breakdown of his 7 goals:

Oct 11 - Gift from Bennett, taps it into a wide open net.
Oct 25 - Down 8-0 against PIT and scores on a weird flutter puck that the goalie should've stopped (no screen).
Nov 1 - Beauty one-knee top corner against Avs.
Dec 31 - Deflection in front of net from Andersson point shot.
Jan 18 - Deflection in front of net on PP.
Mar 29 - PP goal that everyone thought was Monahan's but hit Neal's skate.
Apr 1 - Bangs in a ridiculous pass by Janko from the corner.

I'm not saying that all goals need to be beauties, but only 1/7 was special. I can't see his shooting percentage reverting to the mean based off of what his goals indicated. Neal will have to actually step up his game in order to see better results.

[Robbob]

Another thing that helps me justify the trade is if things were status quo from last year, Neal would probably have spent a decent amount of time in the press box. What is worse, and expensive 4th line or an expensive press box?

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Watching Neal last year is what convinces me that this is a good trade for Calgary. He just looked so bad and so different from what I remember about him. He used to play with an edge, possess a hard shot, and skate pretty well. He showed none of those characteristics.

Here's a breakdown of his 7 goals:

Oct 11 - Gift from Bennett, taps it into a wide open net.
Oct 25 - Down 8-0 against PIT and scores on a weird flutter puck that the goalie should've stopped (no screen).
Nov 1 - Beauty one-knee top corner against Avs.
Dec 31 - Deflection in front of net from Andersson point shot.
Jan 18 - Deflection in front of net on PP.
Mar 29 - PP goal that everyone thought was Monahan's but hit Neal's skate.
Apr 1 - Bangs in a ridiculous pass by Janko from the corner.

I'm not saying that all goals need to be beauties, but only 1/7 was special. I can't see his shooting percentage reverting to the mean based off of what his goals indicated. Neal will have to actually step up his game in order to see better results.

This is gold. To be honest, I could only remember the Nov1 goal against the Avs. That's pretty pathetic for a "Goal scorer"

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Or with 1 minute left in the game and Evander Kane is chirping.

I certainly hope that Calgary doesn't put Lucic on the ice in the last minute of the game. I guess maybe he can get a penalty and we can give up a power play?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I certainly hope that Calgary doesn't put Lucic on the ice in the last minute of the game. I guess maybe he can get a penalty and we can give up a power play?

Not every game. In the right scenario I think it will be possible. How many times when up a couple goals and an arsehat like E. Kane is trying to run around.