Baby Boomers didnt left the economy in better shape

[Red]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Exactly..... lots of different people have different challenges. Whether its opportunities not available due to hiring freeze (economy) or you lost your life savings in the stock market or whatever..... I'm not going to go out on my high horse and tell someone else their generation has it easy, cause thats really stupid. My point is if you don't know what you are talking about..... open your god damn eyes. There are lots of challenges out there..... if you don't know about it, then its your own ignorance that is holding you back.

(PS none of this applies to me..... I actually had it easy...... its just what I have observed, challenges that transcend across all generations..... not every 20 year old is a mind numbing idiot with their head stuck in a iphone playing angry birds like what Red thinks...... )

Of course, because being 63 or 20 makes no difference. How about that 70 year old that was living off dividends? Screw him, start over pal, right? But let's all hold a vigil for that 20 year old that didn't get to live his american dream yet. His life is obviously over...

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Red

Missing the point. At 20, your have a whole life ahead of you,doesn't matter if it's in China or Canada, You have an opportunity to have a do over. At 63 you are old and tired. You have no luxury of of time and energy to reset and start saving again. Young people complain about having to save for retirement when they are young (see Caramon), try doing that when you are 63 and your savings just got wiped.

Hard to believe that I have to spell it out to you like this. Unreal.

I didn't say life is over. God damn it you really suck at this reading thing. Seriously. I don't know if its reading or memory. Maybe you should look back..... what you insinuate is Gen X got hit the hardest because you lost all your money in the stock market (might agree, but if you decided to play the stock market, you should know the market is cyclical - and with the Dow at 15,445 as of today - higher then 2007, you got all your money back and more...... if you sold, well..... why the hell are you playing the stock market if you don't understand what you are doing?)......

BUT..... you make the comment the only challenge faced by Gen Y is iPhones and cars...... that is not true, many Gen Y's were hit hard by the economy as well. My point is you are too myopic and misinformed to know that..... sad that you choose to stubborn to stay in your realm.... probably just so you can sit and sulk in your corner about how hard your life is.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Red

When you are 63, you don't have time to start over again. At 20, you have a whole life ahead of you, so don't tell me that your visa ran out. It's nothing compared to losing your life savings at old age. Nothing.

I might be more sympathetic to your argument about boomers losing half their retirement savings in the 2008 market crash if a greater percentage of that generation even had a significant amount of retirement savings at all. As you may or may not be aware, the baby boomers (as a collective group; obviously there are individual exceptions) were absolutely terrible at planning ahead for their futures. Prior to the market crash in 2008, the average Canadian aged 55+ only had a mere $102k saved (source).

So maybe they lost $51k during the recession, but they more than made back those losses when the market recovered over the next few years. The S&P500 is currently worth almost three times as much as its lowest value in 2009, and it's up about 20% compared to its pre-recession high.

[missdpuck]

Well, I remember being 22 and thinking it was too late to change my path. Or at least it was society/peer pressure telling me it was too late.

At 22, you shouldn't be changing your major, you should be accepting reality and getting a job, I was told.

When I look back, I get so angry. Nobody was supporting me. I was supporting myself. So what if I would be in school for another couple of years.

The schools in Florida (except maybe for the New School ) didn't even have what I wanted to major in.

The disadvantages of a backward state. No wonder IBM bailed out of Boca.

Phan, you are a smart, responsible guy. I believe the difficulties you spell out are valid.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Red

Of course, because being 63 or 20 makes no difference. How about that 70 year old that was living off dividends? Screw him, start over pal, right? But let's all hold a vigil for that 20 year old that didn't get to live his american dream yet. His life is obviously over...

This has nothing to do with the point (both your post and my reply) unless you are trying another "woah is me" post, but...
When a stock goes down, dividend typically increase (unless they cut dividend)...... not to mention, IIRC, Sept 2008 the DOW hit 6000. Within 1 year, it was back to ~9000 or so? 2007 saw a high of ~13,000.... IIRC the recommended liquid cash to hold is 1-2 years worth expenses.

If they had to start over, something went wrong in their financial planning....

[Red]

I never said that the X-rs lost the most. Perhaps we found that reading issue you have been talking about?

And for the last time. The kids that couldn't find their first real job didn't suffer as much as their parents did when they got laid off. You know why? Because the kids were back living in their parents basements but it was the unemployed parents that had to keep the lights on. Get the irony now? Keep whining, Y-ers really suffered there...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I didn't say life is over. God damn it you really suck at this reading thing. Seriously. I don't know if its reading or memory. Maybe you should look back..... what you insinuate is Gen X got hit the hardest because you lost all your money in the stock market (might agree, but if you decided to play the stock market, you should know the market is cyclical - and with the Dow at 15,445 as of today - higher then 2007, you got all your money back and more...... if you sold, well..... why the hell are you playing the stock market if you don't understand what you are doing?)......

BUT..... you make the comment the only challenge faced by Gen Y is iPhones and cars...... that is not true, many Gen Y's were hit hard by the economy as well. My point is you are too myopic and misinformed to know that..... sad that you choose to stubborn to stay in your realm.... probably just so you can sit and sulk in your corner about how hard your life is.

As a baby boomer I lost more than half of my retirement savings in 2008. It was well diversified to cover an regional market woes, however it didn't help that we had a world wide recession. I didn't panic and left my money where it was. Today I have gained back all that I had lost and much much more. Others older than me didn't have time.

Many like myself were "forced" into the market due to interest rates that were paying squat. We had no choice but to play the market if we had any hope of a retirement. Thankfully I have someone good managing my funds. For sure it's a gamble, but not many expected a world wide recession.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Red

I never said that the X-rs lost the most. Perhaps we found that reading issue you have been talking about?

Post 113

Originally Posted by Red

And for the last time. The kids that couldn't find their first real job didn't suffer as much as their parents did when they got laid off. You know why? Because the kids were back living in their parents basements but it was the unemployed parents that had to keep the lights on. Get the irony now? Keep whining, Y-ers really suffered there...

can you tell me which post was the 1st time you said this?

As far as I can read, all you are doing is whining about losing money in the stock market...... which you failed to address my point, at 2007 the DOW was at a high of 13k..... today, the stock market is 15,500..... unless you sold all your stocks when it crashed, you have recovered it all (*assuming a diversified portfolio.... if you choose not to, I question your ability to be attempting your own finances anyways)...... so how did they lose all their life savings?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Dion

As a baby boomer I lost more than half of my retirement savings in 2008. It was well diversified to cover an regional market woes, however it didn't help that we had a world wide recession. I didn't panic and left my money where it was. Today I have gained back all that I had lost and much much more. Others older than me didn't have time.

Glad you got it back..... world wide recessions hurt everyone.

Originally Posted by Dion

Many like myself were "forced" into the market due to interest rates that were paying squat. We had no choice but to play the market if we had any hope of a retirement. Thankfully I have someone good managing my funds. For sure it's a gamble, but not many expected a world wide recession.

Sure but look at blue chippers..... Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc..... you can hedge your bets with dividend in blue chippers who are somewhat recession proof..... and I'm really shocked not more Gen X (aka. people who are without 7 years of retirement) don't do this, keep 5 years worth expenses liquid. Even as someone who is decades away from retirement, I keep ~12 months worth expenses liquid..... ANYTHING can happen, and you are responsible for only yourself. Otherwise you are stuck whining on a message board how your generation has it the hardest because of the economy...... (*assuming the dollar doesn't default or anything, I don't expect people to start purchasing Swiss money to hedge their bets)

As for your last comment..... recessions happen every decade, or shorter..... I get that interest rates are low but you got to plan accordingly. If you don't know how, get ahold of Slava or MoneyGuy..... you are responsible for only yourself, whether you are Gen X or Gen Y.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Well, I remember being 22 and thinking it was too late to change my path. Or at least it was society/peer pressure telling me it was too late.

At 22, you shouldn't be changing your major, you should be accepting reality and getting a job, I was told.

When I look back, I get so angry. Nobody was supporting me. I was supporting myself. So what if I would be in school for another couple of years.

The schools in Florida (except maybe for the New School ) didn't even have what I wanted to major in.

The disadvantages of a backward state. No wonder IBM bailed out of Boca.

Phan, you are a smart, responsible guy. I believe the difficulties you spell out are valid.

I remeber graduating in the 80's with a business degree and not being able to find a job in my field due to the recession back then. I couldn't get a job because I didn't have any experience. After countless messages of the same I took whatever job I could find. One to get out of the house and away from my parents and the other to pay off my debts.

Starting over isn't that easy when you don't have the funds and or a student debt to pay off.

You are correct, Phan is a bright and intelligent young man.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Post 113


can you tell me which post was the 1st time you said this?


As far as I can read, all you are doing is whining about losing money in the stock market...... which you failed to address my point, at 2007 the DOW was at a high of 13k..... today, the stock market is 15,500..... unless you sold all your stocks when it crashed, you have recovered it all (*assuming a diversified portfolio.... if you choose not to, I question your ability to be attempting your own finances anyways)...... so how did they lose all their life savings?

From 113.


As for the 2008 crash, that hurt boomers more than any other generation. That's their retirement money. All Y-ers worried about in 2008 was their new iPhone and repairs on their 94 Honda Prelude.

Come again?

And my point was implied, apparently missed by you. Or you just like to split hairs? Seeing your posts over the years it's pretty clear what you do.

I lost no money that I can't recover in time. I am an X-er. But I bring up a point that Y-ers should stop whining at once and realize that there is not generation before them that had it easier. That is the truth. You worry about american dream and your grand parents worried about lunch and dinner. That's the difference. It's like the first and third world issues. You worry about slow internet, they worry about drinking water. And YOU ARE THE ONE IN TOUGH.

Unreal.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Glad you got it back..... world wide recessions hurt everyone.


Sure but look at blue chippers..... Wal-Mart, McDonalds, etc..... you can hedge your bets with dividend in blue chippers who are somewhat recession proof..... and I'm really shocked not more Gen X (aka. people who are without 7 years of retirement) don't do this, keep 5 years worth expenses liquid.

As for your last comment..... recessions happen every decade, or shorter..... I get that interest rates are low but you got to plan accordingly. If you don't know how, get ahold of Slava or MoneyGuy..... you are responsible for only yourself, whether you are Gen X or Gen Y.

I have a very smart investment guy managing my funds. What happened in 2008 happened to just about everyone and was hard to avoid. Many people panicked and pulled thier funds from the market for safer investments. I stuck it out because I had a lot of trust in who was managing my money and i'm glad I did.

It's the timing and the age of the investor that can hurt a lot of people. As you get older the time frame to regain what was lost during a recession is short and for some like my mother, they didn't have that time and out of fear resorted to safer investments.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Dion

I remeber graduating in the 80's with a business degree and not being able to find a job in my field due to the recession back then. I couldn't get a job because I didn't have any experience. After countless messages of the same I took whatever job I could find. One to get out of the house and away from my parents and the other to pay off my debts.

Starting over isn't that easy when you don't have the funds and or a student debt to pay off.

You are correct, Phan is a bright and intelligent young man.

Thanks Dion..... what you described is was faced by many in 2008-2010... its not crippling, it won't kill them, but it sucked for you and it sucked for them.
Not, as Red would put it:

As for the 2008 crash, that hurt boomers more than any other generation. That's their retirement money. All Y-ers worried about in 2008 was their new iPhone and repairs on their 94 Honda Prelude.

I won't state it a 4th time for Red, because clearly he isn't the type of guy that is willing to open his eyes. I'm glad you and missdp (note: 2 Gen X's) recognize the challenges to Gen Y that I am trying to make aware.....

[Phanuthier]

Somewhat related to this thread, but the business infrustructure set forth (blame Gen X or Gen Y, not even who where the line crosses anymore)..... my company, and Intel.... fiscal year end report record profits and margins across the board..... and mass layoffs, and my friends at Intel say they are going into hiring freeze again......

How about that? You can blame Gen X or Gen Y for that..... but really, c'mon.....

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Red

But I bring up a point that Y-ers should stop whining at once and realize that there is not generation before them that had it easier. That is the truth. You worry about american dream and your grand parents worried about lunch and dinner. That's the difference. It's like the first and third world issues. You worry about slow internet, they worry about drinking water. And YOU ARE THE ONE IN TOUGH.

Unreal.

People would take you more seriously if you argued against the actual issues concerning Gen Y, not the strawmen you're making up. Here's a hint: nobody is whining about slow internet. Their primary concerns are the following:

- Uncharacteristically high youth unemployment (and the long-term ramifications that has on lifetime career earnings)
- The cost of post-secondary education outpacing inflation by a significant margin
- The cost of buying a home outpacing inflation by a significant margin

Like nik- (see post #115), I don't have a skin in this game. I have a good job, my education is fully paid for, I'll be mortgage-free within five years, and I have more retirement savings than most Canadians twice my age. I was born in 1979 and thus straddle the line between Gen X and Gen Y. I don't really identify strongly with either group, but I'm not blind to the realities facing the youth of today. It really is much harder for them to establish a good career and start their adult lives than it was for the boomers 30-40 years ago. To suggest otherwise is nothing but wilful blindness to all the economic data published on this topic.

[Red]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

People would take you more seriously if you argued against the actual issues concerning Gen Y, not the strawmen you're making up. Here's a hint: nobody is whining about slow internet. Their primary concerns are the following:

- Uncharacteristically high youth unemployment (and the long-term ramifications that has on lifetime career earnings)
- The cost of post-secondary education outpacing inflation by a significant margin
- The cost of buying a home outpacing inflation by a significant margin

Like nik- (see post #115), I don't have a skin in this game. I have a good job, my education is fully paid for, I'll be mortgage-free within five years, and I have more retirement savings than most Canadians twice my age. I was born in 1979 and thus straddle the line between Gen X and Gen Y. I don't really identify strongly with either group, but I'm not blind to the realities facing the youth of today. It really is much harder for them to establish a good career and start their adult lives than it was for the boomers 30-40 years ago. To suggest otherwise is nothing but wilful blindness to all the economic data published on this topic.

I am not insensitive to Y-ers problems of today. I am insensitive to ignorant Gen Y whiners that do nothing, but complain about how hard it is for them to start a good career while completely ignoring that for a lot of boomers a factory job was a career. I know, I know, there are even less factory jobs now, but fact remains, boomers were not only looking for good careers, they were just looking for jobs so they could keep the lights on. Everyone had it rough when they were young.

Boomers weren't worried about cost of university or housing prices. They worried about putting food on the table. Degrees and houses are luxuries in most of the world. They are supposed to be hard to obtain. They are not a given, why can't Y-ers understand that?

[Phanuthier]

I should also state, I probably don't have skin in the game at this point..... no student debt, homeowner (fixed rate over 30 years), I was actually only one of my class that got the job we were hoping for (which I'm very fortunate, at least a few of those guys were more qualified then me that ended up going back to their home country)..... retirement is ahead of scheduel as far as my 401k/IRA is concerned... I think I'm Gen X, but I might be in between?

Like MarchHair and nik, while not having skin in the game..... just being aware of challenges other people face.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

- Uncharacteristically high youth unemployment (and the long-term ramifications that has on lifetime career earnings)
- The cost of post-secondary education outpacing inflation by a significant margin
- The cost of buying a home outpacing inflation by a significant margin

Would it be possible for you to document what you believe are the root causes for each one of those bullets?

And please everyone, this is an important topic. Name calling does nothing to help move the conversation forward. Personally I think the problems started way before the baby boomers, and will impact Gen Z or Gen AA far more than any of those being discussed right now....

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Red

I am not insensitive to Y-ers problems of today. I am insensitive to ignorant Gen Y whiners that do nothing, but complain about how hard it is for them to start a good career while completely ignoring that for a lot of boomers a factory job was a career. I know, I know, there are even less factory jobs now, but fact remains, boomers were not only looking for good careers, they were just looking for jobs so they could keep the lights on. Everyone had it rough when they were young.

Boomers weren't worried about cost of university or housing prices. They worried about putting food on the table. Degrees and houses are luxuries in most of the world. They are supposed to be hard to obtain. They are not a given, why can't Y-ers understand that?

Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't realize starvation was such a big deal for the boomers in the the 60's and 70's and 80's...... I thought that was a great depression thing.

In fact, I thought the issue in the 80's was sky high mortgage rates for home owners...... but I guess none of them owned homes so that can't be true!

[missdpuck]

Phan you are a credit to your generation. It is a scary world

There are corrupt, greedy jerks who screw up every generation. It's just now that it seems to have reached a crisis point. If not a crisis point, a critical point of awareness.