Sept 10 Apple Event Thread - iPhone 5S, iPhone 5C, iOS7

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Sports fans have idealized ideas of what they are but they are loyal to a brand. The Flames and NHL are businesses based on consumerism. Their fans are their customers. Both are brands whether you like it or not.

They're called different things because they're a sport but we're still cheering for the employees of a company, competing against the employees of other companies. Those companies can put out substandard products but we keep coming back.

There's nothing wrong with being loyal to a brand, whether it's a sports team, a type of car, electronics, a business, a celebrity, or anything else that you enjoy. If it makes a person happy and doesn't hurt anyone else, you're an a$$hole for trying put someone down because they enjoy a particular thing.

Whether you agree or not, Apple is still delivering on the promise they've given to people that enjoy their products. They just work. Sure there's going to be hiccups along the way but this release, as with their previous ones, allows all their devices to work together in one way or another.

Apple is in the business of making money and few companies do it better. But they also create really cool products that are typically better made than their competition. Some Android phones look great. Samsung is doing great stuff with their phones (I'm loyal to them for TVs). But you can't deny that the vast majority of Android phones are garbage.

Listen, that's all great. I don't know if the claim of just works can be made then state there will be hiccups but whatever. My point was that if the two posters I mentioned have a heart attack everyone someone doesn't say nice things about Apple they should stay away from threads like these.

The sensitivity is hilarious and sad.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by KTrain

But you can't deny that the vast majority of Android phones are garbage.

As an iPhone person myself; I'm going to disagree.

OK- you have a point if you look at all the $100 Android phones on dx.com. The vast majority of the Android phones sold are garbage. However that is entirely the point Apple missed today; and the one I was hoping would be brought home with the 5c.

In the past couple of weeks I have bought two Android phones. Both Nexuses; first one for my brother in law overseas, and then after seeing it and then the price drop I bought one for my son. Other than the lack of LTE, there isn't anything lacking on that phone. And my wife was blown away with how easy it was for me to transfer songs; no messing around with iTunes.

So when a new phone is needed going forward, this family will be looking at Android. If I can get a Nexus 5 with LTE for under $350 with no contract; there is no way I would get an iPhone for $200 on a contract. Especially with having to increase my plan from the current $50 to $70 per month.

I will agree that iPhones may be easier to use; and I stand by my decision to recommend them to my parents. But eventually the number of people like my parents will decrease, and so will Apple's edge in that regard.

Being a Coke fan, I still say Apple is the "Coke" and Android is the "Pepsi." If the Coke is going to cost me 3 times as much, I'll gladly switch to "Pepsi." And I'm sure eventually I will become so used to the Android interface that it won't even bother me.

[KTrain]

For me iMessage has been a bit of a hiccup. When it works there's nothing better but sometimes it doesn't work as advertised and it pisses me off.

Two posters in here are calling brand loyalty "stupid" but are loyal to a brand (the Flames) even when they make stupid decisions and put out substandard products.

[MrMastodonFarm]

When I speak to brand loyalty I am not talking about cheering on your favourite sports teams. I think there is a vast difference. You don't, that's cool, not what I was saying though.

And yes KTrain, there are a tonne of bad Android phones but I think when we discuss Android we're talking about the top-of-the-food-chain ones here. That's obvious.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The fact is iOS is boring and it has been for a while now, more and more people are noticing it with it each iPhone product launch. A lot of this is anecdotal .....

Is that a objective fact or a subjective fact?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Is that a objective fact or a subjective fact?

Is this what it's come to...?

My mistake, should of said "the fact of the matter". My apologies 3rd in command.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Is this what it's come to...?

My mistake, should of said "the fact of the matter". My apologies 3rd in command.

There is no fact here, just opinion. Didn't you learn anything from the lake community thread?

[Pontine]

Originally Posted by ken0042

As an iPhone person myself; I'm going to disagree.

So when a new phone is needed going forward, this family will be looking at Android. If I can get a Nexus 5 with LTE for under $350 with no contract; there is no way I would get an iPhone for $200 on a contract. Especially with having to increase my plan from the current $50 to $70 per month.

Completely agreed. They dropped the ball on the stand alone pricing for the "cheap" version of the iphone. It's not competitive at all.

Even the 5S is ridiculously over priced without a contract for what it offers. I don't see how anyone can justify paying those prices...

Glad I didn't wait around for this announcement to upgrade my IP4. Quite happy with my Samsung GS4.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Is that a objective fact or a subjective fact?

I believe I can help here. It is objectively boring.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I believe I can help here. It is objectively boring.

But my wallpaper is a lake

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

haha, you're unbearable. You and Fanin80 with his "lol". I know this sub forum sprung up around the same time as Apple dominance in the cell phone market so a couple of you still aren't used to this place having differing thoughts on Apple but no one is really hating, people are just saying what they think. If you believe these threads should only be pro-Apple then go report the "haters" to the mods or something.

The fact is iOS is boring and it has been for a while now, more and more people are noticing it with it each iPhone product launch. A lot of this is anecdotal so I don't blame you at all if you disregard it but I'm noticing more and more people throwing away Apple and when asked why they just feel it's the same thing even when it's "new". When you see users switch away from iOS the only thing they're really wondering about now is iMessage, similar to Blackberry users switching to Apple years ago and really only worrying about Blackberry Messenger.

It's not going to happen overnight, didn't happen to Blackberry overnight either and you will always have your diehards but Apple is just becoming boring in the smart phone market, today's announcement certainly seems to be status quo with that. A fresh new take on icons isn't really fooling anyone.

Brand loyalty is hilarious to me. You'll bring up Android to reply to me but I'll have zero hesitation dropping it if something better and innovative comes along. I did it with Blackberry and I did it with iOS.

Brand loyalty sheep are just unbearable, they can't be reasoned with. Like the time HotHotHeat claimed it was totally unnecessary for the then iPhone 3gs to have a redesign. Of course when the iPhone 4 was released he posted and article and agreed with it saying the old model was looking a bit dated and needed to be updated. You can't reason with guys like that, they're sheep.

Overhauling iOS would be suicide? Until they do it, then you'll agree it needed to be done right?

So we should probably just get this on the record. September 10th, 2013, MMF has officially joined the 'Apple is doomed' club.

Just don't blame him if he switches back for the iPhone 6.

[ricosuave]

I'm more pissed about the fact that the iOS7 download wont be available for another week...

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

So we should probably just get this on the record. September 10th, 2013, MMF has officially joined the 'Apple is doomed' club.

No, not Apple, iOS. Apple is more then their mobile division, Blackberry wasn't. Change the date though, I've been saying it before today.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Pretty much confirms to me that I will be dropping Apple after my phone contract runs out next month. I'm tired of the lack of innovation, locked-down OS, and lack of customizable features with the iPhone. I'm thinking of moving to that Nokia Lumina 1020 with Windows 8 - worth a try!

The 1020 has a spectacular camera, and the home screen on Windows Phone is by far my favourite, but the rest of the smartphone features of WP is just non-existent. Integration with Google is pretty much gone unless you are using Google Apps, the app ecosystem is OK, but they mostly lack even the polish that Android apps have.

I think if I could get iOS app quality, with the HTC One hardware, and the home screen of Windows Phone, I'd be super happy.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by KTrain

But you can't deny that the vast majority of Android phones are garbage.

I hate when Apple defenders make this comment.

You can't compare a $150 Samsung Galaxy Ace to a $700 iPhone, no #### the iPhone will be a better piece of hardware.

Compare the like products: 5S to GS4, Optimus G2 and HTC One, and 5C to the Moto X and Nexus 4 (5).

When the iPhone 4 came out I purchased that phone since it was clearly the best on the market. However since that phone came out I can't say the same about Apple's offerings.

Starting with the GS2 (compared to the 4S) i think Android has been putting out products equal if not better to Apple's offerings and IMO the gap is only widening.

I'd take the HTC One over the 5S in a heartbeat and Apple had 6 extra months of development time on the HTC One.

[FanIn80]

I "lol"d at the remark that "Apple is going the way of Blackberry." Anyone who didn't lol at that comment is an idiot (to borrow MMF's word to describe people who see similarities between brand loyalty and sports loyalty).

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

No, not Apple, iOS. Apple is more then their mobile division, Blackberry wasn't. Change the date though, I've been saying it before today.

Right. And how's that prediction going for you?

The irony here is that the companies you put Apple up against rely on them to drive innovation, product categories, etc.

You're amusing if nothing else.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

No, not Apple, iOS. Apple is more then their mobile division, Blackberry wasn't. Change the date though, I've been saying it before today.

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/23/...on-in-revenue/

I think that is Apple's problem right now though. They are a massive company in term of revenue, market cap, and all that, but 56% of their revenue is iPhones. And 87% of their revenue is on iOS based products or services. They are extremely dependent on the mobile market.

iPhone's market share has fallen internationally pretty significantly in the last year

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/07/and...lides-per-idc/

Nothing yesterday gives any indication they are going to reverse that trend. More of an indication that they are willing to concede market share to maintain profitability. That was a successful strategy in Macs, where they were truly offering a better product, and kept their niche. But not really sure that iPhones can claim that any more.

Apple's products are all getting very far down the maturity level.

PCs have started their decline, and Macs will follow that. iPods are about done. Iphones are very mature. Apple TV has its fans, but has pretty much stalled out. iPads are still growing, but they are losing market share, and is hard to see them competing with so many good, much lower lost alternatives in the long run. itunes seems to be losing out to cloud based subscription services like Netflix, Spotify, Pandora, etc. The app store is counting on iOs growth.

I remember people in a thread around here a year ago scoffing at the idea that Apple's stock would ever fall below $500 again.

Apple needs a hit new product in the next few years badly, or it is not going to be pretty for them.

[oilyfan]

I think that is a pretty good assessment nfotiu

It will come down to what Apple wants to be as a company. Yes they got a smartphone to be cool and mass market. But they are unwilling to give up margin, and frankly will never be the low cost producer as Android based phone have found their niche in. Yes Android has high end smartphones but the growth is from lower cost phones.

And yes Apple's market share has dropped, but the market has grown significantly, 51% over 2012. Apple just hasn't been able to capture the same percentage of the market growth as other Android phones, but growth is still there 20% yoy, there is nothing wrong with that. But is Apple even concerned about it? If they are they don't show it, they are still unwilling to bring out a low cost phone.

I like their phones, its no secret, but I can recognize that there might be better phones out there. I just think the people who are forecasting Apple's demise are misjudging the situation.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Integration with Google is pretty much gone unless you are using Google Apps

I believe they have fixed that now.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-phon...ccount-support