It is really incredible how atheists have actually become more annoying than people who would come to your door and preach.
Do you run into people's backyards to tell them how annoying they are having a BBQ with a food you don't like too?
No one forced you to come into this thread, or read tweets of some person, or anything.
Some people are annoying, regardless of if they happen to believe in a god or not. Welcome to reality.
It only seems like atheists are becoming more annoying because they're actually being as verbal as theists instead of hiding their atheism like they had to (and still have to in many cases).
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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Like when people post Ricky Gervais and one of his million tweets about how he is an athiest. Like get over it already, we aren't your mum and you aren't 16 years old anymore, who cares if you don't believe in god?
Considering that he is a Billionaire and his stage show sells out all over the world. I would say a lot of people care. Even you.
As for the Bible being a positive influence on western civilization, I would say that that's only because it happened to be the book in the right place and time, the actual concepts aren't at all new, and in a lot of cases the Bible is ignored anyway.
Take the 10 Commandments:
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1. Have no other gods before me [the God of the Hebrews].
2. Make no images of anything in heaven, earth or the sea, and do not worship or labor for them.
3. Do not vainly use the name of your God [the God of the Hebrews].
4. Do no work on the seventh day of the week.
5. Honor your parents.
6. Do not kill.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not give false testimony against another.
10. Do not desire another's wife or anything that belongs to another.
The first four are completely ignored by western civilization. Capitalism is a core aspect of much of western civilization but violates #10. The core virtues of freedom of speech and freedom of religion don't just violate the first three, but are anathema to them. 6-9 are good but are just rules and restating the self-obvious to not do harm to others. #5 is common to most cultures, but interestingly enough the BEST things to come out of civilization have been when people disobeyed that commandment.. rights for women and minorities being pushed for by rebellious young adults going against the wishes and desires of their parents.
Solon the Athenian came up with the idea of equal rights before anyone else, here's his 10 commandments:
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1. Trust good character more than promises.
2. Do not speak falsely.
3. Do good things.
4. Do not be hasty in making friends, but do not abandon them once made.
5. Learn to obey before you command.
6. When giving advice, do not recommend what is most pleasing, but what is most useful.
7. Make reason your supreme commander.
8. Do not associate with people who do bad things.
9. Honor the gods.
10. Have regard for your parents.
Much better, and positive and directing positive action rather than demanding legalistic adherence.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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I would pay $100 of my own money for GirlySports to die tonight and rise again tomorrow afternoon with full and complete knowledge that she just defied all medical and scientific logic. Maybe $125.
I don't die...I just get more awesome.
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In any case, it's a good fable. I watched all the Zeitgeist movies a while ago, and, not that I agree with everything they're saying there, it was interesting to see the same creation/crucifixion/resurrection story in multiple cultures.
Flameswin, I've noticed your comments about vegans/vegetarians in a few threads. Some can really be annoying. If I'm somewhere and I'm offered stuff with meat in it several times and refuse, the question usually comes up and I just say "yes". There are a lot of people who dont want to think about where our food comes from. And that includes me when Im eating ice cream or something which most likely wasn't made with milk from happy cows...I'm doing the best I can...last night I just had sorbet...I don't know what the answer to it all is, and don't pretend to. But it's worth thinking about.
Maybe there is a god of some sort. I don't know. What I do know is that the ones I've been presented with aren't worth worshipping.
I will never 'beat around the bush' so to speak when it comes to religion.
I was born and raised hard core Catholic. I was terrified by nuns and priests who were my teachers and 'role models' growing up. I was made to feel guilty for simply living, and told I was a 'sinner' as a child. All the while, the man who baptized me and married my parents was the biggest child molester in Canadian history, Father Charles Sylvestre. Look him up. He raped and abused countless young teen girls, including members of my family. Everyone trusted him, especially my grandmother who had him to dinner every weekend and was the organist in his church. The Catholic Church knew about his 'sickness' and they just moved him from Parish to Parish whenever someone would complain about him, whenever questions were asked.
I had an innate fear of 'hell' and burning in hell. I was punished when I questioned anything.
I hate religion. I think religion is the root of all evil. It has been and will be the downfall of humanity. It's senseless.
Having said that- if you were to tell me you are a Christian, Muslim, Jew, whatever.. I would say 'Oh, that's great, good for you.' However, if you ask me about my opinion, I will never hold back.
Jesus Christ probably did live, and probably was a very articulate and magnanimous leader among men- like I say, the first real hippie. His true teachings to live in peace and harmony, to not judge, and to be charitable, good people. I like it, I get it- and even though I would never ever be associated with any religion, I do try and live according to those principles.
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I will never 'beat around the bush' so to speak when it comes to religion.
I was born and raised hard core Catholic. I was terrified by nuns and priests who were my teachers and 'role models' growing up. I was made to feel guilty for simply living, and told I was a 'sinner' as a child. All the while, the man who baptized me and married my parents was the biggest child molester in Canadian history, Father Charles Sylvestre. Look him up. He raped and abused countless young teen girls, including members of my family. Everyone trusted him, especially my grandmother who had him to dinner every weekend and was the organist in his church. The Catholic Church knew about his 'sickness' and they just moved him from Parish to Parish whenever someone would complain about him, whenever questions were asked.
I had an innate fear of 'hell' and burning in hell. I was punished when I questioned anything.
I hate religion. I think religion is the root of all evil. It has been and will be the downfall of humanity. It's senseless.
Having said that- if you were to tell me you are a Christian, Muslim, Jew, whatever.. I would say 'Oh, that's great, good for you.' However, if you ask me about my opinion, I will never hold back.
Jesus Christ probably did live, and probably was a very articulate and magnanimous leader among men- like I say, the first real hippie. His true teachings to live in peace and harmony, to not judge, and to be charitable, good people. I like it, I get it- and even though I would never ever be associated with any religion, I do try and live according to those principles.
LAST Wednesday, I was in conversation with a few of my acquaintances who were in the process of 'running a boat', that is, pooling funds for the purpose of preparing a cooked meal for themselves.
Most of the men were poorly educated but street-sharp in many matters. They were mostly uncertified construction workers who took jobs when they were available at rates as low as $1,200 per day. They were basically good people trying to do the best with what life afforded them.
I cannot recall by what route the topic arose, but one man, probably in his late 30s, mentioned food, women and menstruation, in that exact order, and said that he would not eat cooked food from a woman who was having her monthly period.
For a while I was hard-pressed to accept the fact that I was in the 21st century. When three other men agreed with him I couldn't help but intrude somewhat stridently in the conversation. "Gentlemen," I said, "do you really mean what you are saying and if so, why?"
The argument was, the woman was "unclean". I nearly blew a gasket. I removed the gloves.
__________________
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Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Good Religion, and the Good It Can Do
Quote:
Have there been times when religion has followed a less-than-noble course of action? Yes. Have there been times when the tenets of religion have been used to justify evil and atrocities? Yes. Does that mean that religion can affect no good, and should be removed from society? No.
Good religion accomplishes more edifying and uplifting things in society than bad religion could ever hope to destroy or divide. Most essentially, if we deny a place for religion in our own hearts or in society, then we deny a portion of our own selves and an influence for goodness in our world.
It is the person who assents to good religion that seeks to dialogue, understand, and serve those around him. Religious believers find a communion of love with God, and labor to expand that love and compassion to others. They point to a higher ideal, seek to live by it, and call others to its fullness. They understand that the glory of God is man fully alive.
From this initiative, religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing.
This is the task and contribution of good religion. It is not always a perfect contribution because we are not perfect, but it is a contribution more good than not.
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
Exp:
Does Religion Cause More Harm Than Good?
Quote:
To be more precise, it seems obvious to me that religion causes both harm and good. What I don’t know is whether the harmful effects happen more often than the beneficial ones (or if the former somehow qualitatively outweigh the latter). Allow me to explain.
It seems to incredibly simplistic to say either “religion is always bad” or “religion is always good.” There are clearly people who are motivated, by religion, to do good things, such as donate their money to charity, do volunteer work, be honest, kind, compassionate, etc. The fact that such people exist disproves the claim that religion is always bad. (Nontheists may think that such theists are doing the right things for the wrong reasons, but that is irrelevant. Such people show that religion can be good.)
Of course, there are also people who are motivated, by religion, to do bad/evil things, such as fly airplanes into buildings, execute others who renounce their religion, oppose scientific progress, protest at funerals, etc. The fact that such people exist disproves the claim that religion is always good. (Theists may think such people are doing the wrong things for the wrong reasons, but that is irrelevant. Such people show that religion can be bad.)
Quote:
I’ve yet to find anything in writing which actually tackles this issue in an intelligent way. In my experience, what usually happens is some atheist will point to examples of bad things done in the name of religion; the theist will respond by saying the actions are inconsistent with the ethical teachings of the religion and/or point out atheist atrocities. What nobody seems to do is to analyze this in a statistically valid way, by figuring out what is representative of theistic behavior and secular behavior. That’s much harder than tossing out “what about the crusades?” and “Stalin killed millions of people!” epithets.
People will do good without religion. We don't need Pastors, Priests or Immams to tell us to help someone or something! There are many charitable atheist groups that do wonderful work. It is a fallacy that we need religion to do good.
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