Salvation: Are You Ready?

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

But that's just old testament days. Jesus came to fulfill that law, not abolish it (or so they used to say). Still not sure what that means.

wasn't going to comment in this thread, but I discussed this with a few friends awhile ago so I thought I would lend my perspective.
there were 3 types of laws in the OT, cultural (ie not relevant today) and two others ( can't remember the distinction between the two though). anyways the other 2 were put in place to keep us from doing things that would lead down a bad road. in the NT Jesus came to fulfull the law.
my understanding is that this means to point out the purpose of the laws, the spirit behind them. he then said they were summed up in two 'commandments' love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul, and love your neighbour as yourself. he wanted to point us beyond just the line in the sand that we aren't supposed to cross, but to connect with God and love him and others. if we kill someone in our mind, it is the same as physically doing it because we aren't loving them thinking that way. I remember the story of Ted Bundy, he started off just looking at porn, but it wasn't enough, it turned into hardcore, then more wild stuff and eventually serial killing. going down that path led to worse things.
You could say he was just following his desires and good for him...but really?

It's in our nature to see how close we can get to the line without crossing it, "how far can I go before it's sin?" etc.

another way of looking at the law:
the OT laws were like a boat we took on a journey. we needed them to get across the ocean, but once we got to land, they no longer served the purpose. we still wanted to get to our destination but had to traverse land. we could still take the boat (law)with us, but it would be burdensome and not very helpful in our journey. going across the land, we could run, ride a horse, do whatever got us there. but if we didn't keep our map/direction, we would go off course.
don't know if that makes sense to you, but it kinda does to me
anyways, just my thoughts, scoreface you aren't doing yourself many favours man, but good on you for defending your faith

[Flashpoint]

It would be really nice if Scoreface or that other dude thanking all his posts would comment on the parts of the bible dealing with human sacrifice, the treatment of women and rape.

They've all been brought up in this thread recently, and completely ignored.

How do you believe only parts of the bible if it's the word of God?

[Thor]

The great thing about religious interpretation is you can endlessly align it with your own personal biases and beliefs.

[Rockin' Flames]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

It would be really nice if Scoreface or that other dude thanking all his posts would comment on the parts of the bible dealing with human sacrifice, the treatment of women and rape.

They've all been brought up in this thread recently, and completely ignored.

How do you believe only parts of the bible if it's the word of God?

It's clear that the verses quoted have been taken out of context and only pulling out one or two verses without considering the verses around them will give you whatever meaning you are looking to derive. It's kind of like picking up a book, reading only a couple of sentences on random pages and then saying you have an understanding of everything in the book.

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

It's clear that the verses quoted have been taken out of context and only pulling out one or two verses without considering the verses around them will give you whatever meaning you are looking to derive. It's kind of like picking up a book, reading only a couple of sentences on random pages and then saying you have an understanding of everything in the book.

I appreciate that you are a faithful person.

I just wanted to make a brief observation.

Personally, I read all the time. If I were to pick up a book and skim it, and saw that the main character 'God' said 'Thou Shall Not Kill' and 'Thou Shall Not Judge'- but 'He' will do either at all times, I'd think I was reading a horror novel.

The Bible by far is the world's best selling book (novel), but maybe in a few hundred years, JK Rowling books will have taken over. When you think about it, there really isn't much of a difference. Jesus fed a ton of people with a few fish and got a bunch drunk with just a little wine, and Harry can make a standard camping tent into a mansion that will house hundreds. Harry and Jesus were special babies too. Yep, I think Harry would definitely be Jesus, but the question I would ask though, is would Voldemort be God, or Satan? And really, what's the difference?

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

It's clear that the verses quoted have been taken out of context and only pulling out one or two verses without considering the verses around them will give you whatever meaning you are looking to derive. It's kind of like picking up a book, reading only a couple of sentences on random pages and then saying you have an understanding of everything in the book.

But is that not what many of the different denominations do ? Pull out a couple sentances that suit their specific agendas and use them out of context with their followers to further that agenda. This is one reason why people throw around terms like hypocrite to explain many Christians.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by Hesla

But is that not what many of the different denominations do ? Pull out a couple sentances that suit their specific agendas and use them out of context with their followers to further that agenda. This is one reason why people throw around terms like hypocrite to explain many Christians.

thus is why the current model of church is somewhat broken. we focus too much on the rules, oh this verse says this so blah blah blah. the focus should be on Jesus teachings, not on whether or not we should be accepting of a group or excommunicate someone. grace for all means for all, Jesus met with the lowest of the low, to show love and encourage them to change

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

thus is why the current model of church is somewhat broken. we focus too much on the rules, oh this verse says this so blah blah blah. the focus should be on Jesus teachings, not on whether or not we should be accepting of a group or excommunicate someone. grace for all means for all, Jesus met with the lowest of the low, to show love and encourage them to change

So, your interpretation of 'The Bible' is to focus on Jesus' teachings. (He did have a great message at times). So, we should just forget all of the other passages and content in the Bible because it's irrelevant, according to you and perhaps other Christians who have no explanation for the cruelty and evil that was/is 'The Word of the Lord?'

I really don't mean to be disrespectful, but isn't that a little convenient?

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

So, your interpretation of 'The Bible' is to focus on Jesus' teachings. (He did have a great message at times). So, we should just forget all of the other passages and content in the Bible because it's irrelevant, according to you and perhaps other Christians who have no explanation for the cruelty and evil that was/is 'The Word of the Lord?'

I really don't mean to be disrespectful, but isn't that a little convenient?

no I understand what you are saying. well my intereperpretation is that Jesus is central to my faith so I should focus on him. there are other great lessons to be learned from the rest of the bible of course. we shouldn't forget the rest of the bible and just keep the gospel books. a little while ago a friend was saying that the bible as a whole is a story God trying to regain his soveriegnty. it makes sense in that since the beginning we have tried to form our own governments, think its up to us to decide what is right and wrong etc.

That to say it's not irrelevant, and it is convenient to just ignore some of the bad stuff that happened, because there is some sick stuff in there. I guess this is where the conversation usually breaks down: yes there was killings made in God's name in the OT. The thing is sometimes God can use bad things for something greater. at the time it seems horrible, but maybe something else is accomplished (like more reliance on Him). we want so badly to understand something, but if there is a God, would you expect to fully understand his reasoning, being human?

also, I think part of the old testament stuff was showing how we couldn't live by the rules we had been given. you could say why would he give the rules then, I guess to test our faithfulness to him, and for the opportunity to free us. You can't be freed from something (guilt etc) unless you did something wrong, it's a harmony type thing. or a random hockey analogy, I think we all can agree the Flames run was made so special because of the 7 years of missing the playoffs. Winning the cup every year for 50 years would be fun, but would get boring (I would take it though!)

we should take "all those other passages" into the context of the time, the book, the bible as a whole. looking at what can be learned from these passages is important, and many things can be taken from them. However, I was talking about the demonination issue, I think the difference in denominations is more because of new testament stuff, where not as much "bad" happened, Pauls writings etc.

some food for thought

[IliketoPuck]

What a wild thread.

I'm shocked to say this, but I'm with Moon on this one.

Scoreface is either extremely spiritual, bordering on fanaticism. Or he is the greatest religion thread troll I've ever seen. I can't decide which.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

It's clear that the verses quoted have been taken out of context and only pulling out one or two verses without considering the verses around them will give you whatever meaning you are looking to derive. It's kind of like picking up a book, reading only a couple of sentences on random pages and then saying you have an understanding of everything in the book.

How much context is required for you to hand your daughters to a mob to be raped?

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Scoreface is either extremely spiritual, bordering on fanaticism. Or he is the greatest religion thread troll I've ever seen. I can't decide which.

Poe's law.

It is impossible to parody a Creationist's beliefs.