Rape by deception: crime or no crime?

[CaptainCrunch]

I wonder if his cellmate told him that he was a multi murderer on the first day to force the issue, even though he was actually a white collar tax evader with a short sentence.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Locke

Bad example, Blaster switches depending on the standings all on his own.

And this girl is easy all on her own.

[GGG]

I figured out what the punishment should be.

If you lie to get someone to sleep with you and that lie was why they slept with you then essentially you have stolen sex. Its not Rape because it was consentual but you did commit fraud in order to aquire a service. So essentially you should have to pay for the value of this service plus a penalty.

So the Israel girl should be entitled to some cash compensation that the average Call girl makes plus some penalty.

[ernie]

So an update on this story. Seems the guy plea bargained down to rape by deception but was charged with a indecent sexual assault. The woman's account was somewhat confused allowing him to plea down to the charge. She had also filed 14 other sexual assault complaints in the past so there was some protecting of the case done by the prosecutors to spare here from taking the stand. So really it doesn't seem like anyone will ever know the real truth in this situation.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/20.../15283626.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...on-plea-israel

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ernie

So an update on this story. Seems the guy plea bargained down to rape by deception but was charged with a indecent sexual assault. The woman's account was somewhat confused allowing him to plea down to the charge. She had also filed 14 other sexual assault complaints in the past so there was some protecting of the case done by the prosecutors to spare here from taking the stand. So really it doesn't seem like anyone will ever know the real truth in this situation.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/20.../15283626.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...on-plea-israel

I think those stories you've posted are watered down as the reporters who initially did such an awful job of reporting the truth are backtracking.

http://www.mideastyouth.com/2010/09/...-abused-woman/

The woman was not confused about her story at all. She was found bleeding and alone in a hallway. She was then taken to hospital where they documented her resistance wounds.

The victim was staying at a woman's shelter, because she was raped and forced into prostitution by her father. She dodged questions on her past (understandably) which led to questions on her credibility. In addition, she had been sent to a mental institution after this latest rape and the prosecution wanted to spare her having to through further cross-examination.

Therefore, they struck a plea bargain on a lesser charge under the assumption that the perpetrator went to jaiil.

Meanwhile, the "liberal" media sees an opportunity to pounce on Israel again, and reports a total distortion of the truth. They even go as far as interviewing the rapist and reporting exclusively his story, and a rape victim is humliated on a global scale.

[flylock shox]

Very interesting revelations. Surprised this hasn't been more widely publicized - I can't even find the new article in Haaretz, which seems odd.

In a nutshell, it appears the prosecution's case was almost entirely dependent upon the evidence of the victim - a reluctant victim with a troubled past for whom giving testimony was very difficult. The prosecution lost faith in her ability to testify and secure a conviction, and so a plea agreement was reached for the lesser offence of rape by deception, which formed the basis for conviction and sentencing.

Almost all of the victim's testimony (on the issue of consent at least) was excluded from the plea deal and the sentencing process, which resulted in the 18 month sentence for the accused. As far as the court was concerned there was no forced sexual intercourse, only consensual intercourse obtained by lies.

This is a tough call for the prosecution for a number of reasons, which should be obvious.

I would still suggest it sets an ugly legal precedent, regardless of this new background information.

It strips away any sympathy for the convicted man though.

Edit: Found one garbled opinion piece in Haaretz now...

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

So if she didn't clue in right away, the Palestinian guy must have been circumcised, right? Isn't that like, not kosher or whatever the corresponding term would be for a Muslim?

I have a feeling it wasn't an oral encounter.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Very interesting revelations. Surprised this hasn't been more widely publicized - I can't even find the new article in Haaretz, which seems odd.

Does it seem odd? Haaretz is the one who initially reported this story. A story that has now embarrassed a lot of people who ran with it as truth.

That opinion piece you link to is about a self-proclaimed feminist who decided to take up the cause of racism as opposed to women's rights. It's essentially an apology and a commitment never to put anything above women's rights in the future (although I personally would prefer a commitment to not judge in the future until the entirety of the facts emerge).

Edit: Haaretz did publish the story, but not in English:

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/spages/1187907.html

That previous story I linked you to was the English translation:

http://www.mideastyouth.com/2010/09/...-abused-woman/

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by blankall

Does it seem odd? Haaretz is the one who initially reported this story. A story that has now embarrassed a lot of people who ran with it as truth.

That opinion piece you link to is about a self-proclaimed feminist who decided to take up the cause of racism as opposed to women's rights. It's essentially an apology and a commitment never to put anything above women's rights in the future (although I personally would prefer a commitment to not judge in the future until the entirety of the facts emerge).

Edit: Haaretz did publish the story, but not in English:

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/spages/1187907.html

That previous story I linked you to was the English translation:

http://www.mideastyouth.com/2010/09/...-abused-woman/

It would have surprised me if Haaretz hadn't tried to lead the way with the new information - they strike me as that kind of publication.

It's a hot potato for the press - they were only partly wrong with their initial reports (and the ones that managed to avoid editorializing may have been entirely correct in what they reported, i.e., the findings of fact and the decision made by the court in question). Now they've got more information, but the accuracy of that information is debatable, since it hasn't been found factual in court. How do they respond to that? With difficulty, it appears, since few seem to have picked up the new story.

And the opinion piece I linked to was a bit of a tangential dither - it was just the only piece I could find (in English) in Haaretz that addressed the expose, so I figured I'd chuck it in there.

[afc wimbledon]

the woman has made 14 previous claims of sexual assualt most of which appear to have been made up, a sad left over from a history of incest in her family.

While it is possible he raped her it is equally possible and more likely they had sex then she accused him of rape after a flashback.

He would have gone free in Canada without much doubt.

[Sluggo]

With all this publicity that guy is gonna wish he was sentenced for 18 years. I don't think his people will be giving him high fives for his transgressions with a Jewish lady.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

the woman has made 14 previous claims of sexual assualt most of which appear to have been made up, a sad left over from a history of incest in her family.

While it is possible he raped her it is equally possible and more likely they had sex then she accused him of rape after a flashback.

He would have gone free in Canada without much doubt.

I don't think it says anywhere that "most" of her previous claims were "made up". The only thing it says is that not all of her claims resulted in succesful prosecutions.

There is also evidence to back up the victim's story, in this particular case. She was found naked in a hallway by policemen, and the hospital where she was sent documented scratch marks on her body.

However, I think the bigger issue here is the way the media handled the story. Virtually every news source I read painted this as an issue of race/religion. In reality it was an issue of a women having a her credibility questioned due to a traumatic past. Race/religion was not a factor here at all.

[flylock shox]

That's my reading of the prosecutor's decision as well: her past - including an improbable number of sexual assault allegations several of which were never proven - brings her credibility into question, making it the legitimate target of cross-examination by the defence. That cross-examination would predictably be very difficult for the victim, which is a major factor in the prosecution deciding to opt for a plea deal. The corroborative evidence suggests it's more likely her story was, in fact, true.

I disagree with respect to this not being a race/religion issue. Legally speaking, the issue of the man's race/religion is central to the decision: it was his deception on this point that allowed for a conviction of rape by deception. The information contained in the testimony of the victim is, as far as the law is concerned, irrelevant.

I also wouldn't read too much into the media's initial reporting of this case. Media outlets pay people to scan over legal decisions looking for anything topical or newsworthy - they don't usually have people in the courtroom for the entire trial process (and almost certainly didn't in this case). Anyone reading the court's decision wouldn't know the background of the case - they'd have to go to the transcript for that. So I'm not at all surprised the initial story got printed without this new information.

What concerns me more about the media's reaction is why the new information hasn't been more widely published in media outlets that carried the initial story.

Edit: Here's a nice piece by Canadian-Israeli freelancer Lisa Goldman that summarizes things nicely.

And an interesting excerpt from her article raises more concerns about the scope of the "rape by deception" law:

There were two precedents of Israeli Jewish men convicted of rape by deception; but in both those cases, the men were convicted of lying about their socio-economic status. Never had a man been convicted of rape by deception for claiming he was a Jew when he was in fact an Arab.

The article links to articles describing the two precedent cases, which are interesting in their own right.

[afc wimbledon]

If all she was, was naked and scratched, then Isreal has dreadfully old fashioned rape investigations, being naked and scratched is pretty much irrelevant, especially for a woman that is desperate to be believed that she was raped whether she had been or not, it is the state of her vagina that tells whether it was likely rape or not.