How many people here believe in God, Heaven and angels, Hell and Satan and his demons

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Maybe in Heaven time runs at a different speed.... like 1 minute in Heaven equals 100 years on earth..

Same with Hell... except the reverse.

It wouldn't matter, any concept of time goes out the window when there is no beginning or end. If it goes for eternity, would it matter if each minute was 100 earth years, or even a trillion Earth years. Its all the same to you really in that kind of situation.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by WesternCanadaKing

It wouldn't matter, any concept of time goes out the window when there is no beginning or end. If it goes for eternity, would it matter if each minute was 100 earth years, or even a trillion Earth years. Its all the same to you really in that kind of situation.

If they have doritos I'm good. Maybe heaven is all the Doritos you can eat and hell is licking clean the fingers of those eating the Doritos.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Puxlut

So it's like we're the ultimate reality tv show for God? He just lets us loose to make our own decisions/mistakes/successes and sits back and watches us on the biggest jumbotron ever...

So what was the point in making us (if you follow creation vs evolution... but that's another thread) if it wasn't just for god's amusement?

Personally, I believe that I am the master of my own destiny and if I'm a "good" person I will lead a fairly happy life and that's all that matters.

Originally Posted by WesternCanadaKing

I don't get how people could look forward to the what the Bible describes as Heaven. It doesn't matter how nice it is, and eternity is a long fataing time, I can't imagine living for an eternity. Existance would have no meaning, all the things that gave you pleasure on Earth would become pointless without death, and honestly, after a while you'd probably just end up standing in the same spot going bat**** insane forever. I get (hopefully) 70 to 90 years of fun and excitement in which I'm a good person and kind to my fellow man... and I'm rewarded by an eternity of meaningless existance. Send me back to Earth please.

Just for fun, I don't know if I'm right, perhaps Puxlut's issue helps out WCK, and for WCK, perhaps that's why we have been given time away from eternity in the first place?

As for Puxlut, the same reason you have kids, or paint, or write, or make music. It's hard to have a discussion by yourself. What's wrong with God potentially being bored?

These are all fascinating questions I honestly hope will get answered after I die. I personally find it something to look forward to.

[flamesfever]

My mother used to say you can make your life a heaven or a hell depending on how you live your life.

Whether you believe in an after-life heaven or hell, I believe the above still applies.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by WesternCanadaKing

It wouldn't matter, any concept of time goes out the window when there is no beginning or end. If it goes for eternity, would it matter if each minute was 100 earth years, or even a trillion Earth years. Its all the same to you really in that kind of situation.

In all seriousness, you can't be bored because it's eternal bliss. The more and more I think about it heaven sounds like the last scene in 1984, where he loves the party and no longer has to think. Probably without the bullet though.

[Superflyer]

I do not consider myself an Athiest but I also do not believe in God\Heven\Hell etc.

To me, if I am to believe in something it has to be proven to me that it exists (or did exist). I have spoken to many priests\clergy members\devote catholics and nobody has been able to prove that any of this exists. All that I get is the same answers: "You have to believe" and "It is written so it is true"
I'm sorry but that is not enough to prove to me that any of this exists.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

I do not consider myself an Athiest but I also do not believe in God\Heven\Hell etc.

To me, if I am to believe in something it has to be proven to me that it exists (or did exist). I have spoken to many priests\clergy members\devote catholics and nobody has been able to prove that any of this exists. All that I get is the same answers: "You have to believe" and "It is written so it is true"
I'm sorry but that is not enough to prove to me that any of this exists.

Part of the point of religion is one can't prove it exists. Faith is about belief without proof.

[LChoy]

Figure this is the best place to put this

EDIT: I can't seem to embed this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDndcxH-O4

[Thor]

Thats why Scientology and other fringe 'religions' thrive.

Its also why alternative medicine expos are full of gullible people who buy stuff that has no proof that it works, they just rely on faith.

There should be more critical/skeptical thinking done by everyone, not just religious. I find I know a lot more about biblical history, origins of the testaments, etc than any of my religious friends. For me its weird to just say I believe in the Christian god when its just mostly about "its what I grew up with" and not what you researched and truly investigated before you accepted it as your own personal truth.

Its such an important question to answer, yet people are more content to just accept their belief without much effort.

I get mad at religion when I see its abuses, but mostly the problem I have is with the holy books being used to justify illogical and silly beliefs to justify social and political policy.

But this is a great thread, I love the poll! Its really neat for me to see specific beliefs, like how many actually believe in demons/hell/angels.. Fascinating stuff.

Where's textcritic!

[photon]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

I do not consider myself an Athiest but I also do not believe in God\Heven\Hell etc.

Sorry, but you are an atheist (one willing to consider changing though).

There are weak atheists (who would say I do not believe in any god) and there are strong atheists (who would say I believe there are no gods).

What you describe (lack of belief based on lack of evidence) is best described as an agnostic atheist, you do not know, so you do not believe.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Part of the point of religion is one can't prove it exists. Faith is about belief without proof.

Heh, sometimes I will point out to a theist that that means they are agnostic (assuming knowledge is based on something that is supported by evidence, so no evidence = no knowledge).

They don't seem to like that much.

[Hack&Lube]

Here are some great statements by Bob Wright that I read on the Atlantic that I agree with wholeheartedly.

Human nature is pragmatic and people are by and large willing to cooperate when it’s in their interests. My world view is based on the belief that religion isn’t where the real intellectual action is, it’s a response to facts on the ground, a function of human nature and the circumstances in which human nature finds itself...I don’t think Jesus ever preached, or even believed, in universal love. That doctrine emerges after his death, as the Jesus movement is taking shape in the Roman Empire. It reflects the kind of cosmopolitan values you see in an empire. Historically, moral progress has been driven by the expansion of social organization, which seems to have been an inevitable product of technological evolution. Religion reflects that progress, and mediates it, but doesn’t drive it.

I think attributing all the problems in the world to religion can have unfortunate political consequences, because it makes us ill-inclined to address grievances and defuse tensions. Dawkins has said that if not for religion there would be no Israeli-Palestinian conflict. If you believe that, then Obama needn’t bother trying to stop the settlements. We know religion isn’t going away. So if the problem is religion, why make the effort to improve the facts on the ground?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by photon

Heh, sometimes I will point out to a theist that that means they are agnostic (assuming knowledge is based on something that is supported by evidence, so no evidence = no knowledge).

They don't seem to like that much.

I think that we should distinguish the theist from the confessional adherent; someone who reads the biblical texts as a literal representation of divine history. The adherent is the one who engages in a tautological justification of their beliefs; the Bible is true because it says it is true.

A theist can base their belief on personal experience etc... which is not subject to the same empirical standards that must apply to the religious adherent.

[photon]

True, but I would still use the word belief for those people, belief based on personal experience is still belief, I wouldn't use the word knowledge.

Of course then that leads down the road to the definition of knowledge vs. belief, and I think I'd rather have a free will discussion TBQH.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by photon

True, but I would still use the word belief for those people, belief based on personal experience is still belief, I wouldn't use the word knowledge.

Of course then that leads down the road to the definition of knowledge vs. belief, and I think I'd rather have a free will discussion TBQH.

I would like to add that personal experience of god tend to come about after one decides god exists because the explanation of God is now acceptable in your mind. Just walk into the Sistine chapel and get chills, that must be feeling god.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by photon

True, but I would still use the word belief for those people, belief based on personal experience is still belief, I wouldn't use the word knowledge.

Of course then that leads down the road to the definition of knowledge vs. belief, and I think I'd rather have a free will discussion TBQH.

Faith can be rationalized like anything else. Heck, if your faith is a justification or guide to your social/personal morality, that's completely rational.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Just walk into the Sistine chapel and get chills, that must be feeling god.

Can't it just be a feeling of human pride?

Some people see the lines in the desert in Nazca Peru, and think they must have been made by gods. To me, that is insulting to the people that made them. Humans are capable of great works.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by troutman

Can't it just be a feeling of human pride?

Some people see the lines in the desert in Nazca Peru, and think they must have been made by gods. To me, that is insulting to the people that made them. Humans are capable of great works.

Sure but the work in the Sistine chapel is considered to be a work of divine inspiration, and the beauty that mankind is capable of creating in concert with God.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by troutman

Can't it just be a feeling of human pride?

Some people see the lines in the desert in Nazca Peru, and think they must have been made by gods. To me, that is insulting to the people that made them. Humans are capable of great works.

Well that's what I think too but I'm just saying how I believe people "experience god".

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Just walk into the Sistine chapel and get chills, that must be feeling god.

What does it mean if I suddenly got really hot and broke out into rashes when I walked into the sistine chapel?